Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

Mikko Kurki-Suonio <maxxon@swob.dna.fi> wrote:
>>     Keep the powerguns as Jon Tuffley wrote them.
>With no point value...
    How about DFFG + HEL cost * 2? It's up to us, and the group to find
an
acceptable points value. Just moaning about it won't help. After all, I
don't know of a game system that will let you play Hammer's Slammers
(HS)
except for an Arab-Israeli war game!

>Jon's article, while a very good read, fails in that it does not
provide
>any actual rules for the Slammers' very common ability to shoot down
>aircraft, missiles and artillery shells almost at will. Heck, he
doesn't
>even rate the supertank a simple PDS. What makes this omission even
worse
>is that this ability is the very justification for the entire existance
of
>the regiment. See "The Warrior" for what Drake feels will happen to an
>armored force left without this defense -- rapid death by AT artillery.
    HS doesn't need PDS. HS GEV tanks automatically, with no cost in
actions, shoot down missiles. This is because the opponent's missiles
aren't
DSII fire and forget, self homing, high speed missiles.

>And in a "brind-n-battle" environment, it needs a point value.
    Do you mean "Bring 'n' Battle"? Then you aren't playing Hammer's
Slammers! You're playing with no limitations and no genre.

>> By the way, Hammer's Slammers fight like the US in the Vietnam War
era.
>The US in Vietnam didn't have too much trouble with ATGM's, I seem to
>recall...  Drake's justification isn't entirely logical, but he knew
he'd
>have to get rid of the rapidly advancing missile technology somehow to
>justify big gun MBTs as viable future war machines.

    Vietnam War era is also close to Arab-Israeli war era. Where ATGMs
were
first used in war. Hammer's Slammers era missiles are operator
controlled,
wire guided, joystick control devices, where the operator guides the
missile
to the target by seeing where the missile was and guiding it to its
target.
The standard technique for tank crews, when they saw a missile launch,
was
to fire at the operator with 0.50 calibre MG and Main gun HE rounds.
Typically the operator ducked and the missile automatically missed, or
the
missile was hit with the main gun HE burst. Therefore no problems.
Hammer's
Slammers don't have DSII era fire and forget, self homing, high speed
missiles.
    So when playing in the Hammer's Slammers era, all missiles fired at
tanks will automatically miss. No rolls or actions required.
    HS combat cars were open topped because they were based on a old
Soviet
apc wich was open topped. I get the impression David Drake didn't like
M113s!
    HS also isn't NBC capable. Their rules of war didn't allow NBC
weapons
to be used.

>>     Develop a device called a shield generator and give it a size
rating.
>This is the other category of your solutions: A house rule. While it
could
>work, I did previously say that making rules and playtesting them is
what
>I think I am paying the publisher for.
    Sure, but why wait? Why not just go ahead and do it! You could
always
plead to Jon Tuffley for him to write you a rule! I would much prefer us
all
to discuss here it on the list.

>If I have to weigh the time and trouble of properly testing a house
rule
>for system X vs. just buying system Y that already covers the issue,
the
>rule has to be *very* minor, or I have to like X *very,very* much to
>justify the work.
    But does system Y have all the good points of system X?

>>     Reduce GMS damage to 1 per size class. GMS/L = 1 chit. GMS/H = 2
chits.
>Now, this is actually a worthwhile suggestion. Except that it probably
>throws the balance off the other way, making GMS too expensive for what
it
>can do.
    Then discard them! Use towed AT guns instead! Assume that GMS are
too
costly for the defenders and attackers, or that supply trains can't
supply
the ammount needed for a battle.

>>     Yes, but can you suspend your disbelief long enough?
>I find it easier to accept that a slightly silly looking vehicle
>has a place on the battlefield than a blanket "you just can't do that"
>going against published rules.
    The game is what you make of it. When playing in a genre, use the
genre
limitations and accept them. When not playing in a genre, don't use the
genre limitations.
    If you need reasons for the genre limitations, research the genre
and
find them out. Don't moan about it! It doesn't help! It only hinders.

Andrew Martin
Shared email: Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz
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