RE: Low Tech Scenarios

I said I was probably using the wrong terminology.  I know they say NATO
on the side of ammo cans.  I probably am refering to the round you
mention as a SAW (FN-MINI or C9 in Canada).  If Canadians go to war we
will be using the round I described (copper jacket with stell penetrator
followed by lead).

I believe the Aussie (sorry can't remeber your name) had it right with
the SP### designation.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Los [SMTP:los@cris.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 12:23 PM
> To:	FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
> Subject:	Re: Low Tech Scenarios
> 
> You are using the wrong terminology because the NATO designation just
> means it is a standard size for all NATOP weapons, like 9mm NATO ball
> or
> 7.62mm NATO ball. If any of you guys are in the military (don't know
> about Aussies though) just look on the side of any ammo can when you
> goi
> to the range. I did negelect to mention that there is a AP round for
> the
> 5.56mm that we use in the SAW. This is probably the round that you are
> talking about. It has a black colored tip.
> 
> John Skelly wrote:
> 
> > There are two types of rounds.  The ball round refers to a copper
> > jacket
> > with a lead core.  The NATO (I may be using wrong terminology, it's
> > what
> > we called it) round has a copper jacket with steel penetrator at the
> > front of the round with a lead tail.  I don't know the exact ratio
> of
> > lead to steel.  From outside appearances it would look the same
> > (copper).
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Los [SMTP:los@cris.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 6:37 PM
> > > To:   FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
> > > Subject:	    Re: Low Tech Scenarios
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Skelly wrote:
> > >
> > > > They used ball in Somalia.  That could have a lot to do with the
> > > lack of
> > > > man stopping.  The NATO round, from what I've read and been
> > taught,
> > > is a
> > > > much better round having a steel/lead core.
> > >
> > > There's some confusion here. The term "Nato" is used with ball. If
> > you
> > > look
> > > on the side of any military ammo can you will see it says  5.56mm
> > NATO
> > > ball
> > > or 7.62mm NATO ball.) It's not a seperate type of round. There
> only
> > is
> > > 5.56mm ball. Which is a jacketed round. (Yes there is also
> tracer).
> > > The
> > > green tipped that someone referred to has the same bullet. The
> only
> > > difference is that it is for use with the M16A2 and M4 carbine as
> > > opposed to
> > > the M16A1. Different grain load out.
> > >
> > > As far as problems with stopping power with the 5.56mm: I never
> > heard
> > > or saw
> > > a problem with stopping power. In fact the 5.56mm due to it's
> > velocity
> > > and
> > > tumbling creates a special type of horrific wound. Saw one guy
> shot
> > in
> > > the
> > > ass who had it come out the front of his throat. Yeesh. I was not
> on
> >
> > > the
> > > Somalia op but have many friends & colleagues that were. Didn't
> hear
> >
> > > of a
> > > single instance where a 5.56mm round failed to rip apart one of
> them
> >
> > > skinny
> > > bastards. And who fires only one round?
> > >
> > > The only problem you get into with 5.56mm is in it's use with SAW.
> > > It's a
> > > little light for a MG round when you are firing at vehicles. At
> > longer
> > > ranges it doesn't have the penetration of 7.62mm Heck even at
> short
> > > range
> > > 100-200m you can punch holes in a BMP with an M60 or MaG58 (well
> > > depending
> > > on where you hit it also) that you can't do with a SAW.
> 
>