RE: -ot-Bren Guns-/ot-

The Sten, Grease gun (M3), and M11/M10 series are all about the same as 
far as accuracy, reliability, cost per unit, and fit and finish. 

All are still very popular and used in certain circles to this very day.

They are simple robust tools. Made for CQB and nothing else. The UZIs 
fall in this same catagory of weapons. I like the Grease gun or M10 in 
.45 they are accurate (for SMGs) and have a nice heavy bullet. 



----Original Message Follows----
From: John Skelly <canjns@can.sas.com>
Reply-To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: "'FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk'" <FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: <ot>Bren Guns</ot>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:23:41 -0400

I've had the opportunity to handle both the MP38 and the Sten (personal
plug).

I wouldn't say the Sten was superior to the the MP38 in all ways.  One
complaint about the Sten was its inaccuracy, A vet told me that if you
fired a Sten, people standing on either side of you would duck.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan E & Carmel J Brain [mailto:aebrain@dynamite.com.au]
Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 8:49 AM
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
Subject: Re: <ot>Bren Guns</ot>

Tim Jones wrote:

> > I always understood the Bren to be LMG material. Is it perchance the
> > Sten you are thinking of?
> 
> The Bren is a Czech well made magazine fed LMG, I used to strip them
in the
> army cadets. The Sten is the tinplate SMG later replaced by the
Stirling. Both
> very inferior to their German counterparts.

The Bren is more like an Automatic Rifle, with a similar role to the US
BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) or FN L2A1 (the heavy barrel and bipod
version of the old FN or SLR). I'm not sure if the US made a full-auto
bipod version of an M-14, but that's an appropriate comparison.
An LMG it isn't. Trouble is, it was used as such by the Brits and the
rest of the Commonwealth forces during WW2. With a ROF of under 12
rnds/sec, and a 30-round mag, it compared poorly to an MG-38 or MG-42,
which are ancestral to the US M-60 and a dozen other LMGs.

But... The Bren was accurate. Very accurate. Even _I_ have been known to
put every round of a 3-round burst in a dinnerplate-sized target at 200
yds, a feat I couldn't manage with a bolt-action .303 SMLE. But note
that accuracy is not a big issue with LMGs, volume of fire is more
important. The Bren is also reliable, and easy to fix when it goes wrong
(usually a gas stoppage).

So I wouldn't say it was "inferior" to it's German counterpart, because
it didn't have one. German doctrine called for an LMG, not an automatic
rifle in support. UK and US doctrine used an automatic rifle, not an LMG
(like a Lewis).

As for the Sten... it was very very cheap, and about as reliable as the
much more expensive MP38 and MP40 models. Not as accurate, or as quick
firing. But could be (and was) immersed in Mud, water, sand etc and
still be able to be fired without a full filed stripping. Incredibly
easy to manufacture, even at home. MP38s in particular were
high-precision pieces of machinery. Difficult to make, and if not kept
spotless, would jam easily. So this one I'd say was greatly superior to
its German counterparts. Certainly the Germans thought so, they
manufactured them in large numbers in 1945 for the Volksturm.
  
-- 
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