Re: SG II House Rules - longish post

 
> Funny but I always think the side with the most money have better
armor,
> regardless of troop quality.

Just as what comprised a knight in some time periods had less to do 
with heredity or social standing than it did with money (which 
probably had to do with the other two in many ways). For example, in 
many ways, the NY National Gaurd have better equipment (in many 
regards) than the Canadian Primary Land Force, but the Canadians I 
think (by virtue of being regulars) have a better troop quality. 
(Now, regular US troops vs regular Canucks I won't touch as that 
could spark an *incident*). 

 As a perhaps non-applicable aside, I have
> spent now 19 years in the Army, the last ten in Special Forces (the
> first bit was as a paratrooper then drill sergeant).

DE OPPRESSO LIBRE (excuse the spelling). A Grand Tradition.

 In most cases
> outside of actually going on a "door kicking" op, we do not use body
> armor or even helmets (we call them the dome of obedience).

Heh. I just call them a pain in the butt, and doubly so if they 
aren't Kevlar. 

 Even in
> Desert Storm the great majority of SF and SAS did not carry body armor
> or even fhelmets. We had too much other shit to carry and after
getting
> dropped off across the fence, you are on your own with your LPCs
> (Leather personnel carriers).

When I heard how much kit the famed Bravo Two Zero supposedly carried 
(and I don't doubt it), I realized I (as a reservist) would not 
probably be able to move under that load (least not for the duration 
of normal movement). 80 lbs. of kit is a heck of a lot to hump about 
on a regular basis. I don't like carrying 45-55 lbs, let alone 80+. 
It's a pretty good justification for ammo rules too. 

>This primarily has to do with:
>A: You are much mroe manueverable without the stuff on.
 >B: You ahve clearer feild of vision, hearing and sense without the 
stuff

<probably the big one for most small units operating semi-covert>

> C: It's still pretty heavy. 99% of all warmovies or wargames ignore
the
> fact that you usually had to carry your ass twenty klicks from point A
> to point B BEFORE you get into teh first fight. And
weight=fatigue=lack
> of attention.

Yes. Shooting, spotting, marching, reacting, etc. are all affected a 
heck of a lot by the units state of fatigue. 

> D: That foolish feeling of invincibility that elite forces have.

I met some Canadian SSF guys, and one or two US Spec Forces in my 
time (and even a SAS Sgt.) - I have absolutely no desire to call that 
feeling foolish - when you're that well trained, that experienced, 
and that *select*, you may not be invincible, but you sure are a hell 
of a lot more dangerous and more survivable than your average ground 
pounder...
. 

> I think troop quality makes the overwhelming differnce in any and all
> circumstances short of overwhelming firepower and numbers.

Hear Hear!

 A good
> example as it applies to ambushes. Regular or conscript troops pretty
> much put their heads down and hump along under a heavy rucksack with
> their eyes on the guys feet in front of them. Except if Sarge is
> watching. Their minds are focussed on their pain and fatigue and how
> much real army stuff sucks compared to what they saw on Rambo. As soon
> as the shit hits the fan there is confusion and they drop straight to
> the ground. Usually with their heavy ruck driving their heads into the
> dirt. The logistics of all that weight, fear and surprise acts as a
> natural dampener to doing anything. It'll take a few seconds of
> screaming or yelling before they start to shoot back. Of course they
> won't have the foggiest idea of where the targets are so they'll
pretty
> much just shoot up into the air.

Been on both sides of that situation. Your description is almost 
perfect. People would like to believe troops are alert, ready to 
react, etc. but a lot of times the part-time soldiers like the 
reserves or conscripts (and to a lesser extent the reg forces) are 
just not on the ball all the time - they're too preoccupied with 
their aching feet, sore back, wet head, the awful god forsaken 
sergeant, etc. etc. 
 
> A well trained soldier is still humping along under the heavy weight,
> but he has long since become used to the feeling of being a mule and
> worked out how best to make his equipment ride so that he stays
fresher.

Training is incredibly valuable. 

> As he walks along, he's looking around and lokking at the ground,
> wondering where he will dive if the shit hits the fan in the next few
> seconds. Most likely he's also watching his writst compass, counting
> pace, and thinking about who he's going to bang on his next leave and
in
> what order he will visit his favorit restaurants when he gets out of
the
> field. All this (except for the sexual fantasies and food) are done
> virtually sub-conciously. 

Generally beforee an ambush, he will at least
> realise he's in an area of high probability danger and be more alert.
At
> first contact, he'll still hit the ground, but will recover and return
> fire more accurately quicker. More importantly, his unit will have
> worked out immediate action drills that are almost like football
palys,
> that have long been ingrained into muscle memory.  These will be
inacted
> at the moment of contact, sometimes initaited by the leader. those not
> in the kill zone will immediatelya sses the situation and begin
> manuevering to flank the ambush. OR the entire patrol will begin break
> contact drills such as the Australian peel.

Exactly. And one of these units receives no more benefit in SG2 than 
a green unit when being fired on in an ambush.	

> All of this is what should be represented by that quality factor, and
> should apply to targets as well as firers. IMO.

Now, how to put that into a game context? 
- one suggestion was a reaction roll to go IP before fire is resolved
- another suggestion was a mod to range die based on unit quality

any other ideas?

:) Tom
 
 
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