Re[2]: Stargrunt II question

Tom,

I'm sorry, but I think you are missing the point. Think about it for a
minute. Lets assume "close" range is 2 range bands. Therefore, for any
troops of Regular or better quality, your starting distance of 140m
(14")
is close range.

In order to have arrived at that point (14" from the enemy) means that
in
their previous activation they must have moved to that point. If the
defenders didn't activate first then the attacking unit is fired upon at
a
range of 14". In my experience, if your defenders are regular or better
at
that sort of range (target rolls a D6) they will probably cause at least
1
or 2 casualties as well as suppressing the target. Its difficult to be
any
more precise due to the variability built into the SGII combat system.

So your example is artificial. Chances are your attacking unit is now
14"
from the enemy, suppressed with one or more casualties down. Hmm. In
order
to move at all, they've got to first remove that suppression. Of course,
if
they are caught in cross fire from more than one defending unit (your
defenders were supported weren't they?) then they may well have _more
than
one_ suppression. All of a sudden your attack is no longer quite so
easy.....

I think you are falling into the trap of not thinking at the right
scale.
Weapons in the hands of regular troops are effective out to 40" (400m),
which is not unreasonable for SF weapons. Thus the firefight is going to
be
engaged much further out than your 140m. In fact, if an attacking unit
has
got to within 140m of its target and has suffered no casualties and is
not
suppressed, they _deserve_ to get in close and take them out.

Have you actually tried it out in practice? I suspect from your comments
that your examples are pure theory. Try it in an actual game and see
what
happens. When we were playtesting, one of the scenarios we used was
three
squads on each side and a board with _no terrain
whatsoever_. Forces started about 40"-50"  apart. Try that and see
how difficult it is to get within 15" with no adverse effects.....

Mike Elliott

_______________________Reply Seperator _____________________________
Lets pick an even more contrived (no terrain involved, both A and B
start
140 m apart in the open) example where they (the moving force, B in
my previous examples) are 140 m out, then they activate and dash 120m as
there combat move (leaving them 20 m from A), and then fire (probably
very
effectively) at the patiently waiting-to-die formation A whose only goal
in
life was to engage B at 60 m. Now one can (I believe fatuously) argue
that
A should have activated and fired at B at 140m or that B dashed so fast
they caught A by surprise, but that 140 m dash might be from long range
to
short! And a dash from long to short where the prepared defending player
can't engage you seems just wrong. I mean, I've been a member of a squad
in
contact with other units closing by rapid bounds or Advance-To-Contact
drill if you prefer, and even when the defenders (us) were disorganized
as
any group of ten or less guys could really be, there is no way that an
enemy force could have moved from a long range into an effective or
short
range without us at least getting the opportunity to put rounds
downrange
and engage them. Covering 20 to 120m in the sight of a stationary foe
who
might have the inclination to fire upon you is generally speaking an
undesirable situation (I might go so far as to suggest it is a recurrent
nightmare of most ground pounders), let alone conducting some other
action
in plain sight afterwards!. My Infantry CO always said you wanted to
fight
dead and dying soldiers, not living, breathing, awake and aware men with
weapons and an
inclination to use them. Sometimes you have to 'run into the guns'
but it should be a scenario where you pretty much expect to take brutal
casualties because you don't have any choice. You should never expect to
be
able to charge a prepared position and (with a lucky die roll) cover the
distance before they can fire..... I think any infantry commander that
depended on this tactic under normal
circumstances would be court martialled. Without some for of
Overwatch or Gaurd, it seems to me that (assuming mean roll of 3.5
on your combat move) you stand a pretty decent chance of covering 70m
(enough to take you from medium range to short, and if you roll good,
enough to take you from much further out, perhaps long range, to
short) AND then conducting a fire action before the emplaced enemy
can reply.