Re: DS2: stats for Epic miniatures

At 02:39 PM 1/29/97 EST, Andy wrote:
>
>I have set out several times to design DS2 stats for Space Marine
>miniatures, but usually got discouraged on the way and never
>finished.

I've done Space Marines and Orks, so I'll comment as per your request.

>1) Leave out the difficult things for now.  Bikes, wheeled or
>jet, for example.

I left out walkers but I think I included bikes. I used them as simple
recon
vehicles (they don't live long in DS2, though). 

>2) I'll design things by the way I see them, not necessarily
>trying to get the same effect that GW used.

That's what I did. I essentially used the GW figures without worrying
about
the GW universe.

>Another example: I haven't yet decided if I want the
>Land Raider to carry troops.  Well, it probably will, but I
>don't want to make that so just because GW says it does.

I created both types! When using DS2's vehicle design rules, I found
that
you could not give it 4 class 2 lasers and have room left over for
carrying
infantry. Therefore, I created one type of Land Raider with two lasers
and
infantry carrying capacity, and another with 4 lasers and no carrying
capacity. It seems to work well enough.

Remember to invent new firing arcs for the Land Raider.

>4) Don't follow the recommendation of limiting number of weapons
>to vehicle size.  (Though I'm not sure this rule would come into
>play very often.)

This may or may not be useful to follow. I think I did follow it. If
you're
not that stuck on GW's rulings then you might want to follow this rule.

>5) Allow breaking of the rule that a vehicle may only have a weapon
>of vehicle size + 1.  If it fits in the capacity, allow it.  Though
>I'd leave it as a guideline.  I'm thinking of the vindicator, for
>instance.

I threw that ruling out for the Vindicator. The rest of my vehicles
follow
this rule, though.

>6) Allow multiple firecons.  Well, some way of shooting more than
>one thing at a time.  Maybe I ought to try it first, to see if I
>care about this, but GW miniatures have tons of weapons on 'em,
>and I have trouble not seeing them shoot as many as possible.

I didn't worry too much about this. 

>Any thoughts on this?	If you've made the SM to DS
>conversion, how did you handle this?

I didn't give them extra fire cons. I didn't see this as much of a
problem.
Most of the vehicles only have one main weapon and some infantry
weapons. If
you do change this rule, remember that the DS2 point system starts to
deviate more and more from "reality." If you do decide to tinker around
with
this, you should remember to take the point system with a larger grain
of
salt than usual.

>7) Minor infantry changes.  Add a Heavy Infantry type, like
>Line except taking 5 hits to kill.  These would be my Space
>Marine figures, and I think of 'em like Star Wars Stormtroopers.

I used someone else's infantry rules, but this makes sense. 

>8) Minor movement changes: Medium tracked, halfway between
>slow and fast in cost and speed.  For the Land Raider.

I didn't think it needed it. I just made them fast tracked. Your idea
sounds
fine, though.

>9) Think about the roles of things before I start.  The
>Advanced Alien race (Eldar) will use lasers, for example.
>I need to design stats that use point defense and area defense
>and ECM--it would be easy to forget those as I start out.

This is very important. For one thing, when you start adding back up
systems, ECM, point defence, etc. etc. your designs no longer act like
GW
vehicles. You might as well have fun with the designs and forget where
the
models came from. I invented my own Rhino based vehicles, for instance.
One
is a counter battery radar vehicle and another is a Command Control
Centre.
They don't exist in GW's universe, but they do in DS2.

I gave my races different abilities, too. The Orks have big (usually
single-mounted) vehicles that do a lot of damage, but they only have
Basic
fire control and ECM. The Empire has Enhanced ECM and fire control,
representing an edge over the Orks. The Eldar, which I haven't done,
would
have Superior for both, representing a much better technology level.
Then
the games become quality versus quantity. The Orks will outnumber the
Eldar
and do a lot of damage when they hit but the Eldar will hit more often.
I
gave the Empire smaller weapons than the Orks, but I hadn't decided on
whether the Eldar would have smaller, larger, or similar sized weapons
than
the Empire. If I give them larger, there would be fewer Eldar on the
table.
Not necessarily a major thing since I haven't bought a GW product in
YEARS!

>10) Most importantly--write the stats down on vehicle cards,
>so you don't lose 'em and have to do it again!

I've got them on a spreadsheet.

Allan Goodall:	agoodall@sympatico.ca 
"You'll want to hear about my new obsession.
 I'm riding high upon a deep depression. 
 I'm only happy when it rains."    - Garbage