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Re: DS2 / SG2 vehicle design.

From: Alex Williams <thantos@d...>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:12:29 -0400
Subject: Re: DS2 / SG2 vehicle design.

> I've got come across some oddities with the vehicle design system in
> and SG2. My problem concerns turrets.

Keep in mind that I'm answering this purely from the PoV of DSII since
Rider Online still hasn't sent me SGII.  :/

> A turreted weapon takes 3xweapon size class. Okay.
> Another turreted weapon on the same vehicle takes 2xweapon size class.
> Okay, I can see the logic behind that, but when I examine things a bit
> closer I run into problems.

Noa bene: `another turreted weapon.'  It doesn't necessarily say `in
the same turret.'

> Example 1:  A multi-barreled turret, the first barrel takes 3x, each 
> subsequent barrel takes 2x. Fine, so my 'Devastation' class fire
> MICV with its 2xHel/2 turret takes 10 capacity.

Ayup, and a nasty design it is, too.

> Example 3: An MBT with a cupola. The main turret is 3xweapon size, but
> is the cupola 2x or 3x? After all it can rotate to face a different
> direction to the main gun and thus would need the extra capacity for 
> its own turret mechanism. 
>	  However as (in DS2) each vehicle can only fire one weapon per
> turn there is no practical game difference between this and a co-axial

> mount, so perhaps x2 is jusatified.
>	  On the other hand, in SG2 we can fire more than one weapon per
> turn if we choose to use both actions and so the question becomes 
> important.

The cupola is /still/ mounted on top of the original turret, and
doesn't require any more mechanics (significantly) to hold its mass.
In DSII, you're absolutely correct.  Just imagine the turret tracking
back and forth with effective fire coming from the APSW on top.

> Example 4:  Vwhicles with multiple turrets. I was prompted to consider
> the problems because of the The 'Phalanx' heavy APC from p68 of SG2 
> It is a size 4 vehicle with 16 infantry capacity and thus 4 capacity 
> remaining. These are occupied by two DFFG/1. How is this possible? The

> DFFGs are clearly in turrets not fixed mounts?
>	  Do we treat this as two restricted arc turrets, each with 180
> degree fire and pay 3x for one and 2x for the other? (This comes to 5
> cap, 
> more than we have available.) Or we pay 3x for each as they are
> systems. (This comes to 6 cap, even worse...)
>	  Or do we fudge matters and say that two 180 degree turrets is
> the same as one 360 degree turret and simply pay 3x. pretending that
> have a single DFFG/1 in a 360 degree turret?
>	  Or do we say that as the dead zone for each DFFG is actually
> very small, (the size of the other turret) we could treat it as a
> 2xDFFG/1
> in a 360 degree turret. Thus taking 5x capacity as in Example 1.

I can't see the design in question sans the book, but the design would
appear to work out correctly if you assume they're both fixed-forward
mounts (each with 2x mounting), as well as in the third possibility
you have listed above (in which you assume that they simply visually
split a single DFFG/1 in a 360o mount into two DFFG/1s in 180o
turrets).  The latter would seem to suggest that in SGII, if you can
only fire a single weapon once in a Turn, even if you have another
Action (in which you'd fire a second weapon, presumably), the DFFG/1
can only be fired once.

> * Do turreted extra weapons only take the 2x capacity instead of 3x if
> they are mounted on the SAME turret as the primary weapon?

I think that's safe to assume if the mechanics in DSII apply.

> * To what extent do people fudge their interpretation of an actual
> miniature in order to make it a 'clean' DS2 or SG2 design?

Pretty far, since the DSII realization is usually a far more
`playable' representation than what I might consider at first glance.

> While on the subject of vehicle designs, here are a few more:
> * When designing vehicles to use in both SG2 and DS2 how do people
> handle the fact that infantry teams take up 4 capacity in DS2
> of size but in SG2 they take 1 capacity per troop. If I am using the
> same 
> army in both scales I would be tempted to know exactly how many troops

> in a team and thus allocate exact capacity to my DS2 designs.

Probably not a bad idea for a House Rule, my question becomes, how do
I decide how many personnel a Crew should be comprised of so my
DSII/FT dropships are right?  :)

> * How much extra capacity does a man packed crew served heavy weapon
> occupy if the squad mount up in an APC etc.? I woud say either 1 or 2
> extra
> capacity.

I'd say a 1pt capacity at the /outside/.  Typically, the heavy weapon
should be portable by the people carrying it, so I'd hesitate to
allocate more than just their bodies and their standard packs.

>	  So how does any one out there handle these problems? Any
> 'official' ruling from Mike? (especially regarding the Phalanx)

Most of us simply go quietly mad and enter hospitals to recover.  ;)

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