Re: [GZG] 25mm a dead scale? (For GZG and others?)

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Tom

Good questions all...

My personal opinion: True 25mm is... terminal. There are very few making
25mm historicals, and those that do are hawking old lines. Even fewer in
SF. The 28mm has superceded 25mm for almost two decades now. I have a
hard time picturing someone who is starting out choosing 25. I have seen
a number of suggestions on TMP for GZG to switch to the more
contemporary 28, but that is not in Jon's plan.

I believe Jon has mentioned he will get back to 25mm at some time, but
the fact is he has a pretty strong 25mm catalog already and is building
a 15mm line from scratch, so it seems only natural that's where his
focus will be for a while.

I think in a lot of ways, we are all struggling with the profusion of
scales. 15 years ago I had only 28mm and 6mm, now I primarily game in 15
(for the reasons you stated, but I was switching from GW to GZG, so the
new scale was not a hassle), but I still game in 6, 28, 40, and 54mm. I
have bought a limited amount of GZG 25mm, the figures because I wanted
larger versions for display, and a number of vehicles as they can still
work with 28mm.

So where does this leave you:
- Sounds like you have more figures than Jon has in stock. You can put
on huge games and supply both sides - that's good - you are not
dependent on finding an opponent with 25mm.
- You do miss out on the excitment of new releases in your scale, you
will have to continue to adapt toys and 28mm vehicles (fess up - that's
fun!). Couldn't some of those 15mm GZG tanks make some great remote
vehicles for 25? Couldn't those 15mm heavy weapons make great weapons
mounted on a jeep?
- Many manufacturers follow the GW model and roll their entire product
line every couple years. GZG doesn't do that and most of us true
believers think that's a good thing. But it does mean there must be some
reasonable limit on the size of any particular line Jon carries
otherwise it becomes an impossible thing to manage. At some point new
intros must stop/drop to a trickle. I think you NEED a new scale.
Really. You often run big games, think about 6mm - GZG and Brigade can
keep your credit card busy for a couple years there! 

Best of luck!
Martin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom B 
  To: gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:52 PM
  Subject: [GZG] 25mm a dead scale? (For GZG and others?)

  For those who know me (I can already sense the flinching...), you may
know I've been at this GZG thing for a year or ten now. For those who've
seen some of the games at ECC, they may recall I have a fair collection
of GZG 25mm stuff. I think my current count runs somewhere in excess of
1200 25mm figures, most of whom are GZG. I think (given the boxes of
unassembled resins I just found), I likely have 50 GZG 25mm vehicles.
Then on top of that we can throw in some TAU vehicles, toys from
Walmart, DLD vehicles around a dozen in number, Ainsty/Denizen
Ventaurians and mid-tech Marines, Ral Partha Battletroops, WEG Star
Wars, new Star Wars plastics, some GW space marines, and so on... and
one can imagine I'm pretty heavily invested into 25mm. By dint of the
work of my superior painter pal, most now have paint on them. The total
investment is probably well over $10K in 25mm stuff at today's prices,
if you count my seriously discounted painting fees. It was accumulated
over the last twenty years. 

  So that's my preamble. One can understand why I might not want to just
unload all of this on E-bay. 

  And now, I see GZG is shifting off into 15mm. I haven't seen much of
anything new in 25mm lines from Jon for some time. No new vehicles, no
new figures or figure lines to speak of - last I recall was probably the
Phalons or a few individual figures in the street level ranges. Lots of
new stuff in 15mm and nothing to speak of in 25mm. 

  Old Crow has produced some nice 25mm and DLD did/does, but I'm not
sure they're not in hiatus (which is too bad, because David does
excellent work). But not much from GZG - still selling existing stuff,
but I own pretty much all of it in profusion. 

  I've been a good customer of Jon, of KR, and of other people stocking
Jon's wares over the years. I'd like to continue to be a good customer
for GZG. But I'm pretty much stuck into 25mm and opening out a new 15mm
range makes marginal sense. And yet, that's where the market is. Brigade
and GZG and others are making 15mm galore. 

  Don't get me wrong, I see the advantages: Cheaper figures, cheaper
shipping, more bang for your buck, closer to WYSIWYG in stargrunt, let's
you play in CM if you want, easier to paint to a decent standard, lots
of toys in the same scale, etc. 

  But that doesn't change the fact I'm like a Dinosaur at La Brea. I've
got both feet planted firmly in the 25mm Tar Pit and no signs of getting
out anytime soon. The fact I too would buy 15mm if starting anew today
is utterly irrelevant. 

  So, to my questions:

  1) Is there anyone else who is still a 25mm player? Are there many of
us left? Is anyone choosing to buy 25mm over 15mm nowadays when buying
new stuff?

  2) Are most 25mm players biting the bullet and migrating to 15mm? Or
resisting that transition?

  3) For Jon T/GZG: Is there any practical likelihood of more 25mm
models coming out? Does it make any sort of business sense? Would a
number of 25mm players coming out of the woodwork and asking for some
new 25mm sculpts affect that decision?

  I'm just curious if there are a bunch of potential 25mm consumers
sitting quietly out there or if I'm literally the last of a dying breed.
If there are a bunch of people in 25mm collections that intend to stay
there, perhaps there might be enough market incentive to convince Jon to
do some more 25mm stuff. I don't necessarily suspect this is the case,
but I thought I'd put the questions out there and see. I'd rather send
Jon my money than a lot of manufacturers for a variety of reasons, but
if there isn't new product I'm interested in buying coming out in a
scale I use, that is a bit problematic.

  I certainly understand the move to 15mm in the hobby, but I'm like a
steam train in the age of the electric locomotive....

  Thomas B. 

  -- 
  "Now, I go to spread happiness to the rest of the station. It is a
terrible responsibility but I have learned to live with it."
     Londo, A Voice in the Wilderness, Part I

  "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like
administering medicine to the dead."  --  Thomas Paine

     Thomas Paine

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