Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS

TomB wrote:

>What would the chances of suspension damage on a non-penetrating belly
hit 
>be for a buried IED?

Quite high... as long as you make a difference between "suspension
damage" 
that merely reduces the vehicle's maximum speed and "M-kill" that stops
it 
dead until it has been extensively repaired.

>Can you knock out (systems down) on an IED target?

With a buried IED? It could probably happen - electronics aren't *that* 
fond of being shaken around violently - but I haven't heard of any IED 
attack where the electronics were the *only* thing that was damaged by
an 
IED hit as would be the case in a Systems Down hit. The DS "Damaged"
result 
(movement halved, fire shifted down one die type) would be more 
appropriate, but SG2 doesn't have that result.

(Road-side IEDs can knock out systems in the same way any fire from the 
side could, ie. by damaging gun sights, stripping away antennae etc.)

>Also, since you can miss (I concede timing might be off), then how do
you 
>determine a hit? Range might or might not matter (I tend to think not 
>much). So some sort a QD roll vs ?

I'd represent it by rolling attacker's QD vs target's QD, representing
the 
target noticing something that doesn't look right and changing 
speed/swerving away at the last moment. I've heard

>OA suggests ignoring mobility hits on 6+ wheeled vehicles.

No, I suggested ignoring SYSTEMS DOWN hits entirely on 6+ wheeled
vehicles 
hit by buried IEDs INSTEAD OF TURNING THEM INTO MOBILITY HITS (which I
had 
suggested for *other* types of vehicles hit by buried IEDs) in order to 
represent both the buried IED's higher probability to damage the
suspension 
rather than the gunsights etc and the 6+ wheeled vehicle's 
higher-than-average ability to take suspension damage and still keep
moving.

At least to me, that's something quite different from "ignoring mobility

hits on 6+ wheeled vehicles"...

> From what I can see with the Canadian LAVs, anytime they get hit, they

> tend to stop. Crew tend to be rattled enough not to be immediately
mobile 
> and often times the LAV will tip or flip. That's a non-penetrating
kill.

That the crew is rattled is not a "kill" at all either in game or 
real-world terms, but a severe case of suppression. As long as the LAV 
doesn't flip over or catches fire, it can often (but not always) move
away 
once the crew pulls itself together again - if they have time to do so
that 
is, ie. they haven't been taken out by follow-up attacks in the
meantime.

If the vehicle flips or tips it can't fire its weapons, so it is clearly

not just an M-kill; and even though the hit didn't "penetrate the
armour" 
there's a good chance that some of the troops and crew inside the
vehicle 
will get hurt (break arms or legs, bash their heads etc.) when the
vehicle 
rolls over. The only SG2 vehicle damage result that matches 
"immobilized+can't fire+potential for crew/passenger casualties" is the 
"disabled" one, which in *formal SG2 game terms* makes the hit 
"penetrating" (ie. Impact die beats the Armour score).

You might want to allow this "disabled" result to be repaired at least
up 
to DS "damaged" level by tipping the vehicle back right-side up though 
(either by an ARV or by the vehicle's own winch if it has one), since 
flipped LAVs (and their Stryker cousins) are often able to move away
under 
their own power once they've been tipped back right-side up.

Regards,

Oerjan
orjan.ariander1@comhem.se

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
-Hen3ry

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