Re: [OFFICIAL] NEW FT SHIPS!!

--- John K Lerchey <lerchey@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Don M wrote: 
> And yet this doesn't stop people from producing historical
> miniatures, like the Lee/Grant tank, the Sherman tank (how 
> many folks in the southern U.S. like *Sherman*?), the Patton
> tank.  

A false example.  As it is a HISTORICAL (caps for emphasis) miniature,
the mini company can't be blamed for what a government named it.  Also
note that

1) "Lee" and "Grant" were BRITISH appellations for the American M-3
medium tank.  The US did not start naming tanks until the M-4
"Sherman".  Historically, the British have been much freer in using the
names of skilled CSA general than the US has.  E.g. the WW1 14" moniter
"HMS Robert E. Lee".

2) None of the names given to historical tanks are associated with
atrocities (Pershing, Patton, Abrams, Bradley).  They were successful
generals, but none massacred civilians.  Even the ACW generals, both
Union and Confederate, fought a relativly civilized war, when compared
to the 20th C..  Those who didn't (like some of the raiders in the
west) stand out from the others in a negative way.

3) Some fine generals DO have negative associations, even though they
fought a "civilized" or "clean" war (like Nathan Bedford Forrest), and
you don't see their names given to anything.

4) Even for those ACW generals who were controverial, there is a limit
to how far things go.  E.g. we have the M-4 "Sherman", but there is no
"USS March to the Sea".    

> How about the Richtoffen class space ship?  No one had 
> relatives shot down by the most famous flying ace  of all time?  
> Didn't I see a Rommel tank?  He sure kicked a lot of British ass
> in North Africa for a long time...

Yes he did, but he did it cleanly.  Rommel didn't massacre civilians or
captured hospital staff, for example.  Erwin Rommel and Heinz Guderian
were fine generals who fought skillfully.  There was another panzer
general of their caliber, but you never see anything named "Sepp
Dietrich".  This is because he DID engage in atrocities such as killing
prisoners, was an SS officer rather than Wehrmacht like Rommel and
Guderian, and was well known for his support of Hitler's "social
policies".

If GZG wants to name their hypothetical new NSL grav tank "Guderian" to
complement the "Rommel" hover tank, I have no problem with it, but I
would advise against the name "Sepp Deitrich".

Perhaps a compromise can be found.  For example, in the 1980s the US
began naming SSBNs after US states and SSNs after US cities.  When it
came to "USS Corpus Christi", there were complaints from many european
countries, both NATO allies and the Vatican.  So the ship was named
"USS City of Corpus Christi" to remove any confusion.  Everyone was
satisfied.

J