RE: 2nd/3rd rate powers - LLAR - and now Africans...

--- Adrian Johnson <adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 

> Or do you mean good quality professional *modern
> western just-like-us* militaries?
-------
I would think this is the basis of comparison,
folks that throw spears do not do well against 
Powered Armor.

 > Your comments ignore all of North Africa, right? 
> Some of the units of the modern era Egyptian and
Algerian armies might be pretty decent - the
> Egyptian combat engineers did a pretty good job
> breaching the Israeli canal defenses, for example. 
-------
Not exactly facing a fortified line, it was a well
executed building exercise.

> The Moroccan army is supposed to have some very good
> troops, one author I read called them the best in
the arab world (and yeah, I know you aren't
> exactly the biggest arab fan, but there are some
> good units out there... the Jordanians have some
also).
-------
Most of the 'good' arab troops are the personal
guard of the ruler, and a paranoid ruler does not
want the line troops to be too well equipped,
because of the old 'overthrough the ruler thing'.

> Anyway, ignoring North Africa, and ignoring anything
> further back than the
> past 50 years or so...  The ANC fielded some
> *excellent* fighting units in
> their war with South Africa.... He commented that
> while there were plenty of crap ANC units, some were
very very good.  ...
> the best guys available...  Remember, the South
> African army, as good as it might have been at one
time, never actually *beat* the ANC completely.
-------
Could that be because the SAA never faced the ANC
field force in battle?	 

> Africa is perfectly capable of producing good
> military formations. 
-------
Virtually all 'good' african units are/were colonial
units.

Certain
> of their cultures have LONG warrior traditions; 
> though granted, Africa has
> been *seriously* buggered up by colonialism and its
> after-effects.  
-------
Tribalism is not an after effect of colonialism.
Colonialism supressed trimalism and brought an
(virtual) end to the tribal wars, and established
a system of law for all that had not existed before.
Tribalism is now the law of the (African) land and 
the rise of slavery can be traced to tribalism and
the end of colonialism and the decline of the 
colonial law system.

Will Africans be able to get their act together again
by
> 2183, and have some professional fighting forces? 
Sure, why not?	180 years is a lot of time
> to change, and NO culture is fixed in stone.
-------
I would suggest the the best chance for this to happen
would be if a planet is settled by an individual
tribe.
The elimination of tribal warfare for dominance on 
the planet would provide the best chance for a 
stable growing society.

> Plenty of European countries in the past 180 years
have had phases of military strength followed by
feebleness...
-------
As far a I know, no empire once lost, has been
regained.

> Ok, the military history of Africa in the past
> century or so isn't exactly
> filled with shining examples,..."they're crap
> now and that means they'll be crap 200 years from
now because nothing will ever change", don't
> you think?   
-------
Africa is actually in a state of decline, slavery is
increasing, tribal warefare is increasing, food
production is declining, and EVERYTHING is the 
fault of the colonials, but just what will happen
when the black governments run of of whites to 
oppress and murder.?

Bye for now,
John L.

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