Re: [SG] Discussion about weekend questions

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:27:10 -0400, "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@magma.ca>
wrote:

>For 
>embarkation, troops activate, move to the 
>vehicle, spend an action to embark, then 
>the vehicle takes its one remaining action, 
>usually drive away. No bookkeeping 
>complexity.

Okay, but aren't you then getting three actions with two squads out of
one
player's activation? Admittedly this is far less of a problem because
you have
overwatch rules, but for players playing without overwatch, won't this
cause a
problem? Move a squad, embark, move? Again, it brings up my point that
an
organic vehicle is still penalized for being part of the squad when it
should
probably get a bonus. In that case they could move and embark, and that
would
be it.

Another question: if a squad moves and embarks, and the vehicle then
moves,
shouldn't that trigger Reaction Fire as per the regular SG2 rules?

These two points (three actions for one activation, and the reaction
fire
question) are why I'm hesitant to jump in and use the same rule. Note
that
it's probably _less_ broken than the rules as they stand.

> Of course, another interesting 
>point was brought up: If a vehicle with 
>troops aboard decides to fire, instead of 
>move, why can't troops simultaneously 
>debark? The answer is, they probably could.

Then you have four actions for one activation, which I think is really
pushing
it: squad moves, squad embarks and vehicle fires, vehicle moves. 

If you allow the vehicle to fire while the squad embarks, shouldn't you
allow
the vehicle that's part of a squad to fire while the squad embarks? And
if so,
doesn't this basically break one of the most basic rules of the game: a
squad
has two actions, and if half the squad is going to spend an action doing
something while the other half isn't then tough? I mean, a squad
embarking
while the vehicle fires would be like allowing half a squad to
reorganise
while the other half fires.

If we go back to first principles, SG2 squads don't do anything. It's
the
squad leader that does everything (motivate the troops or do something
himself). If that's the case, you are still far better off having your
vehicles as separate squads instead of part of the squad.

The bookkeeping question is probably not a major one as most people
could
probably keep this in their heads _if_ you require the vehicle to be the
next
thing to activate for that player.

>1. Range bands are multiplied by weapon 
>size class. So an MDC 5 has 60" range 
>bands. (This is nasty.... a less nasty option 
>is just giving vehicle mounted heavy 
>weapons a 24" range band). 

That would be, what, a maximum range of 3000m? Sounds fairly realistic.
If you
used 24" range bands you get 1200m, which is far less than realistic but
still
"doable".

>2. When firing at infantry behind a brick 
>wall, for example, ignore the cover. 

<<snippage>>

>I'd give the 
>grunts the armour shifts, but the truth is 
>that a tank doesn't have to work too hard 
>to hit a small shack at 400m.

A small shack is a point target. Fire at the shack and treat like the
troops
are in a building/vehicle.

Extend this to walls being a point target (not that big a stretch). What
would
a standard brick wall be in size? Size 1? Size 2?

However, what if you've got troops in foxholes? Even if you're nasty and
only
give a prepared foxhole position a cover shift of 1, you still see the
problem
you described (especially if the squad is In Position), and in this case
I
don't think letting the armour fire at the foxhole as though it were a
point
target is warranted.

But as I said, the rules already cover this: throw HE at the troops
using the
open sight rules for artillery.

> Or, do what 
>Brian and I did when we worked on the 
>bunker rules. Assign the wall an armour 
>value (brick, say armour 1.... thick stone 
>maybe armour 2). Fire at the wall (call it a 
>size 1 chunk of wall). If you hit the wall, 
>roll damage (remembering to double if 
>major impact) and roll armour for the wall. 

*L* Okay, so you _are_ on the same page as me! *L*

>A DFFG/5 in DS2 has a 6km range and 
>anything in the closer range bands dies 
>when it points at them. At 400m, it ought 
>to be a VERY BAD THING to have this 
>pointed at you. 

Then perhaps we need to come up with a SG2 artillery burst radius and
impact
for this so that the DFFG can fire as per open sight artillery rules. I
would
think a 3" radius would be sufficient (but you may disagree). However
the
impact should be a D12 at least.

Oh, one thing. I wouldn't require two actions to fire a direct fire
weapon at
infantry using the on table artillery rules on page 47. I'd let it be
one
action.

Allan Goodall		       agoodall@hyperbear.com
http://www.hyperbear.com

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