Re: [SG] more ww2

At 2:22 PM -0400 7/15/02, Flak Magnet wrote:
>
>I disagree.  My statement is accurate.  I did not state that FMJ rounds
>were somehow impervious to deformation.  I've seen them do exactly that
>(admittedly, not in flesh, lucky for me).  9mmNATO rounds DO punch
>through unarmored personnel more than one would like.	Armor, (flak
>vests, etc.) slow them down considerably, and are much more likely to
>completely stop soft-point or hollow-point rounds.  9mmNATO is good for
>military use.	Less so for law-enforcement or home defense.

If most everyone in military situations is wearing BA, then how would 
this round work in a PDW at all? Or any pistol round? That issue is 
why PDW's are now being designed to penetrate personal armor. They 
are however lacking in the ability to cause majorly traumatic wounds. 
One benefit for another in trade really.

The most critical thing that should be stressed about any round in a 
defensive situation is shot placement. A .22 LR will do far better in 
the chest than a .44 in the thigh. 9mm rounds with a very expandable 
hollow point bullet can crater on a target. Another bullet will over 
penetrate given the same bullet, another bullet, different target 
situation, etc. It all depends on how big the target is and what kind 
of clothes they are wearing (heavy winter clothes with a hallow point 
that gets it's cavity filled by the clothes and fails to expand, thus 
over penetrating). A 9mm ball round isn't super good at dropping 
someone in a hurry. Any smaller pistol sized round in FMJ is like 
that. They aren't creating that much of a wound cavity. Hollow point 
rounds are better because they increase the size of the wound cavity.

It's all shot placement.

>I'm not advocating that _all_ rounds should be subsonic or hollow
>point.  I am saying that a 9mm FMJ round is a less-than-optimal round
>for dropping someone (unarmored) FAST when trying to aim center-mass.
>Less so when using such a "spray and pray" weapon like an UZI.

Open bolt SMGs have their application. Short bursts allow for 
multiple rounds in a given zone vs a single round. Controlled use of 
an SMG has its advantages.

>  > A large heavy slow bullet will deform and mushroom in a big animal.
A
>>  larger flat nosed bullet takes longer to deform than a smaller
>>  lighter hollow point.  But it will deform. It is simply a matter of
>>  the design of the bullet being applied to the correct target type.
>
>Agreed... never thought I disputed that.

Sorry it looked like you were arguing about round deformation.

Personally, I like having 2 mags of 9mm Winchester Silvertips with 18 
rounds in each mag. That's my normal carry setup. I don't expect to 
run out, but if I do, I'm screwed big time. I've thought about .357 
Sig, but unless I can get a gun with >10 magazine capacity, I'm 
staying with what I have. That alone is why I don't like the .44 or 
.45 setup guns. I prefer a double stacked 9mm to a single stack .45. 
Simply because I have more rounds on tap and fewer mag changes for a 
given session of shooting. Strangely, I'm the reverse when it comes 
to long arms. My home defense rifle is a combination of 7.62 SLR/FN 
Fal and a Mossberg 590 Marine (with the bayonet mount!) 12 Gauge with 
a 20"bbl with #8 shot up the mag tube, 4 rounds of 2 3/4" slugs on 
the speed feed, 2 more 3" slugs on the sling and 8rounds of 00 on the 
sling.
-- 
  Ryan Gill		 rmgill@SPAMmindspring.com
----------------------------------------------------------
      |        |		   |	     -==----	  
      | O--=-  |		   |	    /_8[*]°_\	   
      |_/|o|_\_|       | _________ |	    /_[===]_\	  
      / 00DA61 \       |/---------\|	 __/	     \--- 
   _w/|=_[__]_= \w_    // [_]  o[]\\   _oO_\	     /_O|_ 
  |: O(4) ==	O :|  _Oo\=======/_O_  |____\	    /____| 
  |---\________/---|  [__O_______W__]	|x||_\	   /_||x|  
   |s|\        /|s|   |s|/BSV 575\|s|	|x|-\|	   |/-|x|  
   |s|=\______/=|s|   |s|=|_____|=|s|	|x|--|_____|--|x|  
   |s|		|s|   |s|	  |s|	|x|	      |x|  
  '60 Daimler Ferret '42 Daimler Dingo '42 Humber MkIV (1/3)