Re: [SG] more ww2

At 1:48 PM +0000 7/15/02, Richard Kirke wrote:
>John,
>
>I think that Beth means in a more vague "Impact on the battle" sense 
>rather than a physics sense.

Depends on the weapons that you're talking about.

An Enfield, M1 Garand and a Mauser should all have relatively same 
impacts as they are .30 caliber rounds (1) with long big cases and 
big relatively long barrels using slower burning powder.

The M1 Garand would have a higher firepower based on it's semi-auto 
mechanism vs the enfield and Mauser's bolt action mechanism. The 
enfield and the mauser on the other hand could be reloaded mid way 
through the magazine where as the M1 Garand had to fire through the 
entire en-bloc clip of 8 rounds. Still I think that's probably too 
granular.

Give the enfields and mausers a lower firepower than the M1 Garand 
and the M1 Carbine. Give the M1 Carbines a lower impact than the 
larger full sized rounds in the Garand, Mauser and Enfields. The 
stens and other 9mm based smg's should have even lower impact values 
but higher firepower values. The .45 caliber smgs should be perhaps 
higher based on the larger round....if you want a difference between 
.45 and 9mm.

Additionally, you've got the MGs. The Vickers and the M1919 should 
have similar impacts (same as the enfield/M1 Garand actually since 
they use the same rounds), with much higher firepower going to the 
water cooled Vickers and the M1917 MGs that are water cooled. The 
M1919 A4 should still have a lower firepower than the Vickers to 
account for the lower rate of fire based on the lack of the water 
cooled jacket.

The MG42 should have an obscene firepower die with the same impact as 
the mauser rifles.

One thing to understand about the high firepower die based MGs is 
that these are crew served only. That much large .30 caliber ammo 
takes a lot of weight and these guns have some heavy gear to go with 
them. The Vickers is the heaviest of the bunch with a 4-5 man team 
carrying the gun, the tripod, water and ammo for this weapon. They 
aren't used in the assault unless they are pre-emplaced. Putting one 
into action should take 2-3 turns. Same for the MG 42 (and Vickers-K) 
in the sustained fire role. The M1919 is a bit lighter but not much.

In some respects you could have a given squad of guys that each carry 
an ammo counter for the MG in their section or team. By having a 
vehicle that supports them you could run a dude or two back and forth 
to get more ammo. Or detail a squad of infantry to hoof additional 
ammo up for that MG for a special attack.

If you have the M1919 or MG42 in the mobile or so called light role, 
you should give them a few ammo counters spread among the team 
members (or the entire squad) (2) or reduce their firepower. This 
could make for an interesting set of rules I think. Having a second 
barrel counter that gets used after 3 round of fire at a higher 
Firepower could also be interesting. You could also give the Vicker's 
teams water counters to go with their heavy load of multiple ammo 
counters.

An additional aspect of the Vickers is that they could be used for 
sustained fire indirect missions on a target just like a mortar. 
Having this function available in the game would be important.

The BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) and the Bren both used the same 
rounds as their rifle cousins but were fully automatic and were fed 
from box magazines vs integral magazines. They had a higher rate of 
fire with a correspondingly heavier ammo load. These could work 
similar to the heavy MGs with ammo counters for the team members in 
those units as well. In the case of the Bren in a 10 man section of 
infantry 7 men were riflemen and 3 men handled the bren. They carried 
ammo for the bren (6 or more) as did the rest of the rifle section (2 
magazines each). Perhaps giving each man in the section an ammo 
counter that they can drop with the bren team would make sense. I 
don't recall if the US spread additional BAR mags among a squad or 
not. These would have the same impact again as the Garands and 
Enfields, but higher fire power.

An additional ball of wax is the use of small trench mortars by the 
British of a  very light and portable role (the 2") vs the larger 
60mm and heavier mortars by the US, British and Germans which were 
less portable.

Further there's the PIAT, the Bazooka, the Panzerschreck and the 
panzerfaust. All had backblast except the PIAT. All were pretty bad 
as far as accuracy went. One thing that should be allowed is their 
use against point targets. There are more than a few examples of PIAT 
gunners using their weapons against German snipers in church towers 
and other locales for which the large HE round's were perfectly 
suited for destroying.

Of course then there's the Boyes and the browning .50. Those will be 
very high impact with a lower firepower for the Boyes (but AP 
capablilty) and higher Firepower for the .50 Cal MG.

Notes:

1. M1 Garands and M1919's use 30.06 which is hotter than .308/7.62 
nato. Enfields, Brens comparable to 30.06.  7mm Mauser is very 
similar too in game terms. Do not confuse 30.06 (30 caliber) with the 
.30 caliber carbine as that gun fires a smaller bullet (weight, not 
diameter) with a smaller powder charge at lower velocity.

2. Look at footage of Germans forming up for an assault. Every one of 
those guys moving up seems to have a can of link and his rifle. It 
seems like they'd drop the link off with the MG team which is where 
the squad leader was situated in German assault units.

I hope this isn't too much info Beth...

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