Re: POLITICIANS AND OTHERS IN GAMING

"Imre A. Szabo" wrote:

> Ok, I'll spell it out for you...

Look, if you want to discuss this, great.  But stop the patronizing
bullshit
right now, or we've got nothing left to discuss.

> How did Admiral Kimmel's well known bravado in U.S. forces and
contempt for
> the Japanesse influence the actions of the men under him that led to
the
> disaster at Pearl Harbor?
>
> The radar operator who picked up a large flight of aircraft coming
from the
> opposite direction the aircraft due to arrive that day should have
been
> coming from that day.

Those were army personnel who were responsible for that radar station,
and the
highest that warning got was to a Lieutenant who was in charge of the
information center at the time the call came in.  Also note that the
B-17s that
came into Hawaii that day were caught in the attack, and that use of
radar was
in its infancy at the time.

> The non-response from fleet when a U.S. Destroyer detected, attacked,
and
> destroyed a midget submarine trying to enter Pearl Harbor before the
attack
> on Pearl Harbor.

That was the result of the message being misinterpreted.  When the Ward
fired on
the midget sub and sent the message, it was interpreted to mean that
they
*thought* they had seen something and fired on it, not that they had
actually
seen and sunk the midget sub.

> I vaguely remmeber something about an imortant message (possibly about
the
> midget sub) that was left sitting on an officiers desk instead of
being
> forwarded and acted upon.

I don't recall the reference, so I'm not going to comment one way or
another.

>
>
> In everyone of these cases, there was sufficient cause to put that
base and
> those ships on alert.  But why weren't they.	Could have Admiral
Kimmel's
> over confidence and contempt infected his men and resulted in them
making a
> serries of bad mistakes?  No one knows the answer to this, but his
attitude
> most certainly did nothing to discourage it.

Then why do you bother to posit it in the first place?

>
>
> Note, that in none of this did Admiral Kimmel need accurate
information from
> Washington.

Again, bull.  Kimmel should have had information about the political
situation
at the time.  Kimmel should have had information that the Japanese First
Air
Fleet had "disappeared from the radar screen" and its position was
unknown to
the United States prior to Dec. 7, and Kimmel should have been in the
loop as
the messages were decoded.  Kimmel (and Gen. Short) should have gotten
the war
warning sooner than 5 hours after the attack took place.  They didn't. 
Had they
received that warning and still done nothing, then they'd be just as
culpable as
you seem to believe.  One last note.  How many sources have you read
about Pearl
Harbor?  Are you basing your opinions on one single source, or have you
read
multiple ones?	I've got about six books on Pearl Harbor sitting on my
bookshelf
right now, in addition to having written an extensive research paper on
the
topic about 12 years ago.  If you wish to discuss it further, I'm more
than
happy to do so, but let me "spell it out for you":  I'm not going to
bother if
you're going to have a patronizing attitude, nor am I going to continue
it in
this forum.  You may take it to email if you wish to continue.

Mark

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