Re: [DS] Points system (fresh)

At 2:51 PM -0800 4/4/02, Brian Bilderback wrote:
>Ryan M Gill wrote:
>
>>Well, a basic jeep chassis shouldn't cost more than a basic tank
>>chassis 5 times larger.
>
>That's oversimplifying and probably completely missing my point. 
>You're right, a basic jeep chassis shouldn't cost more than the 
>basic tank chassis.  But we're talking about more than just the 
>basic chassis, we're talking about the end vehicle.  If, after 
>loading weapons, armor, FireCon, systems, and stealth on to the two 
>vehicles, you get two vehicles with identical performance, 
>firepower, armor, and both have the same chance of being hit 
>(signature), then the end products should cost the same amount, 
>REGARDLESS of what "Basic chassis" you started with.

So a jeep with 2 guys in it should cost the same as a tank with the 
signature of a jeep with 2 guys in it? I'm not trying to be obtuse, 
but that's what you appear to be saying. That larger vehicle clearly 
has more combat power in it. A stealth fighter shouldn't have a lower 
points cost as a DH mosquito.

>
>Unless of course the tank has a cloaking device. or you mount a 
>homing beacon on the bike. ;-) The point was, what really matters is 
>signature, not actual size, when determining the vehicle's value.

Then that tank should cost way far and above more than that bike should.

Why is signature the only value rated characteristic?

>Which is completely irrelevant to my point.  I said that two 
>vehicles of identical performance should have identical costs, and 
>that whether this is done through miniaturization or stealth is PSB, 
>unneccesary to the design proces in game terms.  To use the BB/PT 
>example, Pretend for argument's sake that the BB is an old WWII BB, 
>with it's armor, guns, and speed/range exactly as in WWII, but 
>someone's added a stealth "cloaking device" that gives it the target 
>signature of a PT.  Let's go further and say the PT has no stealth, 
>so it has the same signature, but it has alien armor and weapons, 
>all of which are capable, despite their size, of delivering as much 
>damage at the same ranges and accuracy as, say, a WWII BB, and that 
>the PT has the same speed and range as, say, a WWII BB.  If that 
>were the case, YES, they SHOULD both cost the same amount in game 
>terms.

I'm not certain you will be able to work with such a massively 
sliding scale. How would you build a points system that accounted for 
WWII tech and GalTech from John Ringo's books? You can't. Not without 
a majorly huge spreadsheet and a computer to go with it.

Generally when I design a DS II game. I toss points out entirely. 
Real battles aren't decided by points. They are decided by chance and 
people making the best of a bad situation. In most of those games, 
the players had a bloody good time because the "points based phallus 
size posturing was completely defenestrated".

>>A stealthed size 5 tank should cost far more than a size 1 personal
>>vehicle.
>
>Not IF the "size 1" vehicle has an identical speed/armor/firepower 
>due to miniaturization, etc.

So what you want to do is build a system that allows you to have a 
comparative cost value for tech levels that impact the general size 
of a component. The only thing is that most things haven't gotten 
that much smaller for a given combat power. Only their apparent size 
has. In some cases, things have just gotten bigger. Tanks are a good 
example of this. Aircraft are somewhat fuzzy as a WWII fighter isn't 
that far off in size from a Modern fighter in size. The weapon 
systems haven't gotten that much smaller either, they've just 
changed. A WWII 500lb bomb is still pretty much a 500lb bomb today.

In addition to a points system. If I can have a Machinegun sized 
weapon that rates as a 16 inch gun from a carrier, then yes. That 
Machine gun sized superweapon is going to have to cost more than a 
regular MG. Its also going to have to cost more than a 16 inch gun. 
How you dovetail that into a game system where the other side still 
has the old tech is beyond me. Why not just play Dirtside with 
Ancients.

NAC Power Armor against Romans Can anyone build a points system for 
rating that? Howmany Hoplites is the same cost as one soldier in PA?
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