Re: Stormtroopers N tie fighters

Well, let's not forget while we're sitting here painting TIE fighters as
being completely useless based on gaming versions of them, that we do
have
the evidence of the actual movie.  Perhaps the TIE fighters supposedly
couldn't take a hit, but according to the movies, the X- and Y-Wings
were no
great bulwarks of resilience either.

In ANH, during the entire Death Star sequence, each direct hit to the
fuselage of a Rebel fighter is fatal. The only two Rebel fighters that
were
hit in any fashion in the sequence that did not immediately suffer a
catastrophic fate were the ones belonging to Luke, Wedge, and Red
Leader,
and the hit to Red Leader merely sent him to a catastrophic fate that
was
less than completely immediate (crashing into the Death Star surface). 
All
of these latter three were struck in the wings, fuselage, or in Luke's
case,
his astrodroid.

ROTJ bears this out in the second Death Star sequence as well... again,
when
Rebel fighters suffer direct hits, even from short bursts from TIE
fighter
fire, they die.

So I'd tend to dismiss the "evidence" from RPGs and video games.  The
movies
just don't bear out that the Rebel fighters are that good at taking a
hit.

E
(aka Stilt Man)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@magma.ca>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: Stormtroopers N tie fighters

> It has been said:
>
> Based on the more "realistic" battles in the
> X-Wing series I can say that 15 X Wings
> can kill a lot of TIE fighters, and a Y-Wing
> that wants to waste torpedoes on a flight
> of TIEs can knock out 6-8 in a head-on
> pass from more than 3km. The Imperials
> want at least 2-1 odds against X- and Y-
> wings, preferrably 3-1 just to make it
> challenging. I could see 90-120 elite TIEs
> being involved, and most of those ending
> getting smoked. I'll have to look into the X-
> Wing Allliance mod scene and see if anyone
> has tried to do the battle as one big
> mission.
>
> [Tomb] Obviously you never played TIE
> FIGHTER. You were obviously flying against
> the reserve squadrons and the rejects from
> the Empire's first line formations. In Tie
> Fighter, it was admittedly a challenge to
> take on an X-Wing with a classic tie fighter
> (can you see no shields, Batman?) but
> some of the advanced TIE FIGHTERS could
> stand with any rebel fighter in the game.
> And as an added plus, if you learned how
> to fly in a fighter that couldn't take a good
> hit, then you could wade through better
> fighters quite easily.
>
> [Tomb] A lot of our perception of the
> Empire is from seeing some small chunk of
> them in action against the ultimate Rebel
> Leaders. They did fairly well on Hoth, and I
> think the planet Yavin would attest to the
> potence of Imperial Power. If you look at
> the source material for WEG and from most
> of the novels (argh!), you discover that the
> Empire is large and has very potent military
> forces. Or so we keep getting told. If it isn't
> actually true (and some game rules might
> make one think it was not), then the
> Empire has one incredibly potent asset:
> Great PR. If their guys get slaughtered in
> racks, and they still keep adverts going that
> say a Stormtrooper is the Best of the Best
> and keep getting recruits, that pretty much
> says it all.
>
> [Tomb] One last thought before you dump
> too much on Tie Fighter pilots. If you
> consider the three sanctioned Han Solo
> books by Brian Daley (the earliest, pretty
> much, of the SW novels, long ago) to be
> canon, then Han went to Imperial Academy
> and was an interceptor/fighter pilot. So
> apparently they have had a few excellent
> pilots from time to time.
>
> [Tomb] One last thought: If anyone hasn't
> hunted up the internet movie Troops, you
> really have to. It's a cross between COPS
> and SW. It shows a day in the life of
> Imperial Law Enforcement (Stormtroopers)
> on a little place called Tatooine. And it puts
> a WHOLE other spin on the Beru/Owen
> Lars crime scene. Oh, and it is _really_ well
> done for something not done by Lucas
> Himself.
>
> Tomb Raider
> PS - Derek, I think it was 40K Rogue
> Trader, not Rouge Trader.... though the
> latter is a very humorous idea... :)
> ---------------------------------------------
> Thomas Barclay
> Co-Creator of http://www.stargrunt.ca
> Stargrunt II and Dirtside II game site
>
> Corruptisima republica plurimae leges.
> [The more corrupt a republic, the more laws.]
> -- Tacitus