Re: [SG] Islamic Bombers

--- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Every time I read about someone spouting off about
> the lack of value on human life 
> or the inherent evil that exists in Muslims or Arabs
> it points out one thing to me:

You know what, this is almost an annual discussion on
the list.  Every time it degenerates to my quoting to
Koran in the face of whichever bleeding heart liberal
Islamic sympathizer is preaching at me.  That's almost
always the end of the thread.  

> Ignorance on the part of the person making the
> statement.  

Flakmagnet, I actually have read the Koran.  I took
notes for the first 300 pages and made annotations in
my copy. After that it started to blur together and I
lost interest.	But the following passages are of
interest to those wishing to understand Islamic
warfare.

Surah II, v. 244: Fight in the way of Allah, and know
that Allah is the Hearer, Knower.

Surah III, v. 157&158: And what though ye be slain in
Allah's way or die therein?  Surely pardon from Allah
and mercy are better than all that they amass.	What
though ye be slain or die, when unto Allah ye are
gathered?

Surah VI, v. 34: Men are in charge of women, because
Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. 
(Hey, it's a seperate subject.	I just LOVE that quote
because I throw it in the face of every woman who
tries to preach tolerance of Islam.  Under Islam
they'd have no right to contradict me.)

Surah IV, v.84: So fight, O Muhammad, in the way of
Allah--Thou are not taxed with responsibility for
anyone except for thyself--and urge on the believers. 
Peradventure Allah will restrain the might of those
who disbelieve.

Surah IV v. 89: So choose not friends from them till
they forskake their homes in the way of Allah; if they
turn back then take them and kill them wherever ye
find them, and choose no friend nor helper from them.

Surah IV v. 95: Those of the believers who sit still,
other than those who have a disabling hurt, are not on
an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah
with their wealth and their lives.

Surah IV v. 104: Relent not in pursuit of the enemy.  

Surah V v.33: The only reward of those who make war
upon Allah and His messenger and strive after
corruption in the land will be that they will be
killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on
alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of
the land.

Surah V. v.49: And if they turn away, then know that
Allah's will is to smite them for some sin of theirs.

Surah V. v.51:	O ye who believe!  Take not the Jews
and the Christians for friends.

Surah VII, v.4-5: How many a township have We
destroyed!  As a raid by night, while they slept at
noon, Our terror came upon them.  No plea had they,
when Our terror came unto them.

Surah VIII, v19: And fight them until all persecution
is no more and religion is all for Allah.  

Surah IX, v5: Then, when the sacred months have
passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and
take them, and besiege them, and prepare for them the
ambush.

Surah IX, v9: How can there be a treaty with Allah and
with His messenger for the idolaters?

Surah IX, v14: Fight them!  Allah will chastise them
at your hands, and he will lay them low.

Surah IX, v41: Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed,
and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way
of Allah!

Surah IX, v52: Say: Can ye await for us aught save one
of two good things (death or victory in Allah's way)?
while we await for you that Allah will afflict you
with a doom from Him or at our hands?  

Surah IX, v73: O Prophet!  Strive against the
disbelievers and the hypocrites!  Be harsh with them. 
Their ultimate abode is in hell, a hapless
journey's-end.

Surah IX, v123:  O ye who believe!  Fight those of the
disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find
harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those
who keep their duty.

And finally two of the most damning passages of the
Koran:

Surah VIII, v65-67: O Prophet!	Exhort the believers
to fight.  If there be of you twenty steadfast they
shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a
hundred steadfast they shall overcome a thousand of
those who disbelieve, because they are a folk without
intelligence.  Now hath Allah lightened your burden,
for He knoweth that there is weakness in you.  So if
there be of you a steadfast hundred they shall
overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a
thousand they shall overcome two thousand by the
permission of Allah.  Allah is with the steadfast.  It
is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has
made slaughter in the land.  

Surah IX, v.29:  Fight against such of those who have
been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor
the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath
forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the
religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily,
being brought low.

OK, now I'm just a dumb soldier "with no intelligence"
but I can read the English language.  Sure, according
to Islam I'm going to hell because I don't speak
Arabic.  But I HAVE to go off the translations (the
one I'm using was done by one Marmaduke Pickthall who
converted to Islam while in India working for the
Nizam of Hyderabad).  I have therefor been given the
scripture, but do not believe in Allah nor the Last
Day, and still consume alcohol and pork and gamble,
and I will NOT ever follow Islam, nor will I pay
tribute to any Muslim readily, nor have I been brought
low.  So it is an act of self defense to struggle
against Islam and sympathizers of Islam.  

> are a lot of parallels that can 
> be drawn between the attitudes of Christian
> Crusaders and the attitudes of those 
> who perpetuate hatred and perpetrate violence is
> Islam's name.  Neither of which 
> have a place in a civilized world (a concept that
> arguably exists only as a concept).

The difference between Christian Crusaders and Islamic
Jihadists (to coin a term) is simple:

Islamic Jihad is demanded in Koran and supported by
the vast majority of mainstream Islamic theologians. 
In fact, can you name a pre-20th century Islamic
writer who preached non-violence?  Go for it.  The old
tired refrain that those who preach violence are not
really "good Muslims" is a little silly given that by
that definition the vast majority of the world's
Muslims are "not good Muslims".  Are good Muslims only
found in the US?

The Crusades were an abberation.  They are not
supported in Scripture, nor are they in keeping with
the Tradition of the Fathers of the Church (St.
Augustine, the originator of the Just War doctrine in
the West would be particularly horrified).  They are
not supported by the Councils, nor by the majority of
the Patriarchs.  They were called unilatterally by one
bishop (OK, OK, Don, I'll go as far as to refer to him
as the Patriarch of the West) and proceeded to commit
atrocities on as many Christians as Muslims. 
Furthermore they are almost universally acknowledged
as being inherently flawed, whereas Islamic suicide
bombers are heralded all over the world.

Oh, and shall we raise the issue of who was agressing
first in this instance?  The Crusades were initiated
by the Seljuk invasion of the Middle East, and more
specifically by their invasion of Anatolia and defeat
of the Roman field army at the battle of Manzikert. 
You want me to feel sorry for the Muslims when they
get a backlash?  My problem with the Crusades is more
with the execution (sloppy--Franks who thought that
anyone who wasn't a Frank was a "Saracen".  Lots of
dead Greeks and Armenians, which always bothers me)
and the theology behind the papal bulls in question.

John

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