Re: (Semi OT) Article on Wargamers

> He lost me when he said "arabs had not produced a great military
leader, or
> great military force in a very,very, very long time".  He seems to
be
> blissfully ignorant of the egyptians of 1973 that would have
completely gutted
> the Israeli armed forces if the US had not shipped in as much
materiel as they
> did.	Sadat was defeated by the US, not by Israel.  For reasons of
their own,
> the Soviets stopped providing support, so Egypt had to back down.

  Not my period of interest, but as I recall, the Egyptians attacked
on Yom Kippur, crossed the Suez and pretty much stopped there, instead
of exploiting their advantage while Israel mobilized.  Once the Israel
got moving, they counterattacked, cut off the Egyptian army and were
headed for Cairo (and Damascus).  The US didn't intervene until that
happened.  It was US and Soviet intervention that saved the *Egyptian*
army from being destroyed.
  If you mean "the US had been supplying materiel all along", that was
hardly a secret.
  I grant you the Egyptians managed to get through the Israeli
defensive line (Bar Lev?), and that Sadat was a pretty good political
leader, but I still wouldn't say this qualifies as
great generalship.

 I was looking for "Great Moslem Victories" to use as names for the IF
heavy cruisers (Hattin class).	There was Khartoum, but as I recall
Gordon was outnumbered about 10 to 1.  The one before that was
Famagusta, in 1571, and again the Turks outnumbered the Venetians
about 10 to 1.	Even if you allow those as examples of great
armies--I'll use them as names but I wouldn't say they were great
armies or great leaders--it's still a long stretch.
Let's see, I might accept:
Sultan Mahomet II (captured Constantinople 1453--sorry John A)--a Turk
Timur i Leng (around 1400)--a Mongol
Sultan Qutuz, (1260)--defeated the Mongols at Ain Jalut -- his
Mamelukes probably thought of themselves as Turks
Jalal ed Din (1231)--a Khwarizmian, I gather a pretty good general who
was unfortunate in having the Mongols as his opponent
The great generals of Syria and Anatolia from Manzikert to the
Crusades (Suleiman, Alp Arslan, Imad ed Din Zenghi, Nur ed Din,
Shirkuh, Saladin) were Turks and Kurds.
Murabits and Almohades (1000-1270 or so) had a few Arabs but were
mostly Mahgribi Berber and Tuareg as I recall
Mahmud the Great  (1001)--Ghaznavid, part of Afghanistan now I think
Buyid dynasties (around 950)--Dailami--I don't know of any great
victories but they were the favored army of one of the top players on
the DBM list a few years ago, presumably he had a reason for picking
them.

The Fatimids (990 or so)--conquered Egypt and held it until Saladin; I
don't know that the Fatimid army counts as "great" but at least it was
successful at one point.  That's the most recent example of a
successful Arab army that occurs to me.