Re: The United States in Full Thrust

----- Original Message -----
> Rome did have a body of law that suited many of the same purposes as a
> constitution, based on the "Twelve Tables".  If we restrict ourselves
to
the

Those laws were originated to safeguard the rights of the individual
landholders, not to provide a form of government.  And they became
irrelevant by the time of the Principate.

> western roman empire, there were only three periods of civil war after
the
> establishment of the principate (Augutus' rule), and only three
episodes
of

Counting civil wars only, not palace coups and assinations, we have the
civil wars of 69, the Batavian revolt in 69, the revolt of Saturninus in
upper Germany in 88-89, the civil wars of 193-194, the sucessful revolt
of
Varius Avitus in 217-218, 235-244 the wars between the Maximinus and the
Gordiani, followed by the "Age of Thirty Tyrans" from 259-268.	In 280,
2
legates in Gaul revolted.  I'm only in the 3rd century.  Want I should
keep
going?

> civil war before that (excluding the "Conflict of the Orders" which
was
really a
> civil rights movement).  As I can easily name more than six emperors
(Augustus,
> Claudius, Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus, Marcus Aurelius, Septimus
Severus),
> your statement is patently false.  In fact, there were only two
occassions
when

Octavian, aka Augustus, fought his way to the throne, over the dead
bodies
of Marc Anthony, Marcus Brutus, and Cassius.  And their legions.  The
civil
wars lasted for 9 years.  His son Tiberius survived a revolt and a later
assination plot by the head of the Guard.  Caligula was assinated by the
Praetorians, installing Claudius.  Claudius was then poisoned by his
wife,
and the Guard installed Nero.  Nero committed suicide when the Senate
led a
revolt against him.  This was followed by the Year of Four Emperors, all
of
whom met violent death except the last, Vespasian.  He was suceeded by
Titus, who died under 'suspicious circumstances'.  Domitian was
assinated
and replaced by Nerva who had to deal with an attempted mutiny by the
Praetorians--which he did by adopting the popular general Trajan.  He
died
of natural causes, the 5th emperor to do so out of the first 12.  Then
we
have Hadrian, Antoninus Pius, and Marcus Aurelius who managed to all get
through their reigns with only a few minor revolts (Hadrian had to break
up
a conspiracy of generals by executing 4 of them).  Then Commodus is
assinated by the Praetorians, as was Pertinax after 3 months.  Then we
have
the auction, whose winner was executed by the Senate, followed by a
3-way
civil war between Albinus, Septimus Severus, and Niger.  Septrimus
Severus
wins and dies of natural causes.  Caracalla inherits the empire by
murdering
his brother, and murdered in turn by his officers.  The leader of the
conspiracy was Macrinus who is defeated and slain by Varius Avitus, who
assumed the name Elagabalus.  He is murdered by Praetorians, and
replaced by
Alexander Severus.  Then Severus is murdered by Maximinus.  The legions
in
Africa name one of their own as Emperor, but both he and his son are
killed.
The grandson of the original claimant, M. A. Gordianus III is named
emperor
by the African legions.  Meanwhile Maximinus is killed by his own
troops,
the two Senatorial canidates for Emperor (Maximus and Balbinus) are
killed
by the Praetorians, and Gordianus III becomes undisputed emperor.  He is
then murdered by one of his own officers.  Phillip the Arab takes the
throne, and then there is a mess of 19 claimants between his death and
268,
including an indepandant Empire in Gaul.  It is eventually ended by
Claudius
II who over 2 years finishes off the last of the other claimants.  He
dies
of the plague, thus being the first emperor to die naturally since
Septimus
Severus in 211.  Aurelian reigns for 5 years, then is assinated. 
Tacitus
reigned for 6 months and it is unsure whether he died of diease or
poison.
Probus takes the throne by murdering the brother of Tacitus, then had a
revolt to put down in Gaul.  Then he was assinated by his own soldiers.
Carus gets murdered (who really believes that struck by lighting story),
and
his younger son Meumerianus is murdered by the Praetorians.

I'm still in the 3rd century.  Want me to keep going?

Granted assination, conspiracy, and coup is more common than outright
civil
war.  BUT, a) this is the STABLE period of the Empire, and b) it's still
not
very orderly.

> 4 to 6 roman generals marched on Rome after the death of the Emperor:
After the
> revolt that drove Nero to suicide, 68 AD became the "Year of Four
Emperors" when
> four generals (Otho, Galba, Vettelius and Vespasian) successively held
the
> title.  The Barracks Emperors describe a period when even historians
don't
> bother to keep track of who was emperor (most of the time).
>
> Up until the early eighth century, a townsman anywhere in the former
roman
> empire would be flabbergasted to be told that it had ended in 576AD.

Bullshit.  In the first place, 476 is the year of the deposition of the
last
Emperor of the Romans in the West (proper title, thankyou).  In the
second
place, all these obnoxious German noblemen lording it around and calling
themselves 'rex' and so forth kind of give it away.