Prev: Re: [FT] WotW #7 Holofields Next: SG2 support weapons fire

Support Weapon fire in SG2

From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@f...>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:29:31 -0400
Subject: Support Weapon fire in SG2

1) I find the literalistic reading of the rules 
possibly correct, but entirely hilarious. It so fails 
the test of common sense that it is not funny. 
And it fails to (in any particular way) limit 
"gamesmanship". 

2) I think Allan has the right of it in describing 
Jon's probable rules thought-process. I don't 
think Jon envisioned the common use of multiple 
SAWs in the real world (look at most of the 
SAW minis, they don't look like light SAWs like 
the M249, but more like (sizewise) an old .30 
Browning). I think this situation was covered by 
"play the game, not the rules". I don't beleive it is 
explicitly covered in the rules (Individual fire of a 
support weapon is, but not group fire of support 
weapons). 

So, my 0.02:

1) We know squads in SG2 typically are 6-8 
guys with 1 SAW (from the rules). We know in 
reality, they are 6-10, often with 2. Pick which 
you like more and go with it. You don't need 
Jon's permission and you've got it anyway....

2) If you don't allow multiple SAWs to fire as 
part of a fire action, let me hypothecate a 
scenario for you: Squad of 6 (Ldr, 3 x rifle, 2 x 
SAW). Bad shooting happens, they lose 4 men 
(oops, everyone with a rifle is dead). They make 
an inspired morale roll and stay in shape to 
fight. (This can happen under SG morale 
rules....). So.... if I move the squad, only one of 
these guys can fire because both have support 
weapons. If I'd had 3 SAWs, one could NEVER 
fire. Even at the same target! Fascinating. But if 
one guy drops his SAW and picks up a rifle 
(illegal I suspect in the rules, but possible), then 
they could fire in the same action. Utterly 
senseless. 

3) Gamesmanship is not prevented. I build a 
squad of 10 with 3 rifles (just in case) and 7 
SAWs. (Reminds me of Mr. Hudak's Nuns in the 
Carnage Con Queso game...). Heck, give the 
rifleman each an IAVR so that if they're all alive, 
two of them can fire IAVRs (and their buddies 
carry spares). The unit likely rolls (while unhurt) 
quality + 1 rifle + 2 IAVR + 7 SAW. Is this legal? 
I believe so. Is it cheesy enough to be GW? 
Why yes. If I ran into a player who wanted to do 
this outside of the Cheese Game, I'd sic Ben 
Kenobi and his Harem on them.... 
<Speaking of which, someone send me Joel 
Frock's email again.... I lost it in the job 
dislocation and we're in transaction....>

4) So, if situations that could normally occur can 
cause an "unnatural flow" (ie parts of the unit 
can't fire together at the same target), and if it 
doesn't prevent cheese (it does not, good sense 
does), then this rules vaccuum (or even written 
restriction) should be replaced with common 
sense. I'm pretty sure that common sense 
dictates whoever in a squad wants to fire at a 
target can. The only exception is GMS, but that 
isn't even terribly sensible, it just seems unlikely 
you'd fire GMS at the same targets for infantry 
small arms and the mechanics are different so 
there are semi-sound reasons for this limit. But 
2 SAWs? I see no good reason for a 
prohibition. If someone insists on being cheesy, 
you have three choices:
a) convince them not to be by approaching the 
discussion from a "what do they do in reality" 
Pov
b) give up, find some less cheesy gamers
c) join them and take up the Call of the 
Limburger

4) How to handle differing impact weapons:
There is a clear precedent in rifles and other 
small arms. If I have a squad with a d8 impact 
rifle and a d10 impact rifle, the rules say I use 
d8 impact for everyone (the worst). I think the 
same axiom can define how support weapon 
impacts are handled - take the worse of the lot. 
It isn't as real as using random determination, 
but we don't do it with rifles of differing impacts, 
so we should probably not with support weapons 
(and it is thus made simple and internally 
consistent with the other rules). 

Allan, I think this one should be added to the list 
of things to cover in SG3 (which undoubtedly will 
arrive sometime after BDS and FMA). And 
something for the vacc heads like FT3. And 
maybe DS3. But it will (eventually) arrive I'm 
sure. In the meantime, use common sense. 
Don't be a slave to the rules. If you feel 
compelled to stick to the written rules even when 
they seem insensate, then you're a good 
candidate for many GW games.....

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