Support Weapon fire in SG2
From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@f...>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:29:31 -0400
Subject: Support Weapon fire in SG2
1) I find the literalistic reading of the rules
possibly correct, but entirely hilarious. It so fails
the test of common sense that it is not funny.
And it fails to (in any particular way) limit
"gamesmanship".
2) I think Allan has the right of it in describing
Jon's probable rules thought-process. I don't
think Jon envisioned the common use of multiple
SAWs in the real world (look at most of the
SAW minis, they don't look like light SAWs like
the M249, but more like (sizewise) an old .30
Browning). I think this situation was covered by
"play the game, not the rules". I don't beleive it is
explicitly covered in the rules (Individual fire of a
support weapon is, but not group fire of support
weapons).
So, my 0.02:
1) We know squads in SG2 typically are 6-8
guys with 1 SAW (from the rules). We know in
reality, they are 6-10, often with 2. Pick which
you like more and go with it. You don't need
Jon's permission and you've got it anyway....
2) If you don't allow multiple SAWs to fire as
part of a fire action, let me hypothecate a
scenario for you: Squad of 6 (Ldr, 3 x rifle, 2 x
SAW). Bad shooting happens, they lose 4 men
(oops, everyone with a rifle is dead). They make
an inspired morale roll and stay in shape to
fight. (This can happen under SG morale
rules....). So.... if I move the squad, only one of
these guys can fire because both have support
weapons. If I'd had 3 SAWs, one could NEVER
fire. Even at the same target! Fascinating. But if
one guy drops his SAW and picks up a rifle
(illegal I suspect in the rules, but possible), then
they could fire in the same action. Utterly
senseless.
3) Gamesmanship is not prevented. I build a
squad of 10 with 3 rifles (just in case) and 7
SAWs. (Reminds me of Mr. Hudak's Nuns in the
Carnage Con Queso game...). Heck, give the
rifleman each an IAVR so that if they're all alive,
two of them can fire IAVRs (and their buddies
carry spares). The unit likely rolls (while unhurt)
quality + 1 rifle + 2 IAVR + 7 SAW. Is this legal?
I believe so. Is it cheesy enough to be GW?
Why yes. If I ran into a player who wanted to do
this outside of the Cheese Game, I'd sic Ben
Kenobi and his Harem on them....
<Speaking of which, someone send me Joel
Frock's email again.... I lost it in the job
dislocation and we're in transaction....>
4) So, if situations that could normally occur can
cause an "unnatural flow" (ie parts of the unit
can't fire together at the same target), and if it
doesn't prevent cheese (it does not, good sense
does), then this rules vaccuum (or even written
restriction) should be replaced with common
sense. I'm pretty sure that common sense
dictates whoever in a squad wants to fire at a
target can. The only exception is GMS, but that
isn't even terribly sensible, it just seems unlikely
you'd fire GMS at the same targets for infantry
small arms and the mechanics are different so
there are semi-sound reasons for this limit. But
2 SAWs? I see no good reason for a
prohibition. If someone insists on being cheesy,
you have three choices:
a) convince them not to be by approaching the
discussion from a "what do they do in reality"
Pov
b) give up, find some less cheesy gamers
c) join them and take up the Call of the
Limburger
4) How to handle differing impact weapons:
There is a clear precedent in rifles and other
small arms. If I have a squad with a d8 impact
rifle and a d10 impact rifle, the rules say I use
d8 impact for everyone (the worst). I think the
same axiom can define how support weapon
impacts are handled - take the worse of the lot.
It isn't as real as using random determination,
but we don't do it with rifles of differing impacts,
so we should probably not with support weapons
(and it is thus made simple and internally
consistent with the other rules).
Allan, I think this one should be added to the list
of things to cover in SG3 (which undoubtedly will
arrive sometime after BDS and FMA). And
something for the vacc heads like FT3. And
maybe DS3. But it will (eventually) arrive I'm
sure. In the meantime, use common sense.
Don't be a slave to the rules. If you feel
compelled to stick to the written rules even when
they seem insensate, then you're a good
candidate for many GW games.....