Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@p...>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:52:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
For those who care:
2nd Lieutenant = Ensign
1st Lieutenant = Lieutenant Junior Grade
Captain = Lieutenant
Major = Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Colonel = Commander
Colonel = Captain
Brigadier General = Rear Admiral (Lower)
Major General = Rear Admiral (Upper)
Lieutenant General = Vice Admiral
General = Admiral
Schoon
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: Uplift FT (was Re: Am I a Republic revisionist?)
In-Reply-To: <3A34F581.90408@ice.net>
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G'day Noel,
>(Thanks, btw Beth, I noticed the pics on your site
>which got me to get them - never woulda thought
>about them otherwise.)
Glad to be of service ;)
>Anyway, are than any standard rules for the use
>that I have just missed in my trolling?
There have been a few ideas put around, but I'm not sure if any of them
have made it on to a webpage.
>My thoughts pretty much have them pegged to
>treat them as walkers for movement, armor 4 or 5
>vehicles (so they can be damaged for halved
>movement) tho vulnerable to infantry fire, can
>only close assault, and morale free. Thoughts welcomed...
We gave them 12" (6" was just too slow). They need 6 hits to kill them
and
infantry can have a pop at them (been watching too much Roughnecks to
say
no to that). Good in close combat, pulling 4 chits, but they also got
limited fire capability (as Derek's SG bugs have a gun bug per squad)
and
they pulled 2 chits for that. In games set on bug worlds they also have
tunnels (mapped out by the bug player before the game on a piece of
paper)
and they can use these like underground roads.
Hope that helps
Beth
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Elizabeth Fulton
c/o CSIRO Division of Marine Research
GPO Box 1538
HOBART
TASMANIA 7001
AUSTRALIA
Phone (03) 6232 5018 International +61 3 6232 5018
Fax 03 6232 5053 International +61 3 6232 5053
email: beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:02:32 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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In a message dated 12/11/00 5:34:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
s_schoon@pacbell.net writes:
> or those who care:
>
> 2nd Lieutenant = Ensign
> 1st Lieutenant = Lieutenant Junior Grade
> Captain = Lieutenant
> Major = Lieutenant Commander
> Lieutenant Colonel = Commander
> Colonel = Captain
> Brigadier General = Rear Admiral (Lower)
> Major General = Rear Admiral (Upper)
> Lieutenant General = Vice Admiral
> General = Admiral
>
> Schoon
Is this USN? When I was in there was no Upper and Lower Rear Admiral.
Rear
Admiral equated to Major General, and Commodore equated to Brigadier.
There
however were no Commodores except in wartime. Effectively the Navy
skipped
that rank and used it as a title for a senior Captain commanding a
squadron.
John Rebori ETN2 (Discharged)
USN 1976 - 1982
ex-USS Pegasus PHM-1
From - Wed Dec 13 16:39:01 2000
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Subject: Re: No campaign system acceptable for SG2?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:02:36 -0600
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It depends on if your looking for an arbitrarily balanced campaign or a
realistic campaign. Since stargrunt 2 does not have any built in
arbitrary
attempt at balance, it is not well suited for such a campaign, but a
campaign where you have limited forces, keep track of casualties, etc?
Such
a campaign would be well suited to SG2.
shogakusha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Cowell" <andy@cowell.org>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: No campaign system acceptable for SG2?
> In message
<604019546FC6D211AE310000F8BCBCEA01A8C385@SABRETOOTH.CORNING.COM>, "
> Parrott, Charles P" writes:
> >
> > As for ideas, I've always been fond of the merc approach where you
> > start with limited funds and buy your forces and take contracts to
> > earn more money to upgrade and/or buy your forces.
>
> Doesn't this inherently require a points system for SG2?
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:16:45 -0500
From: Richard Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
References: <200012111927.UAA21421@d1o960.telia.com>
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Oerjan Ohlson wrote:
> I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. The number of hull
> boxes itself isn't very important; what *is* important - as long as
the
> ship is TMF 60 or larger - is what FBx calls the "hull strength", ie.
> the ratio between the number of hull boxes and the TMF (or rather the
> ratio between the number of hull boxes and the Mass eaten by your
> screens, but since the screen Mass is a fixed %age of the TMF that's
> pretty much the same thing :-/ ). The weaker your hull is (the lower %
> of your TMF used for hull or armour boxes), the less use you'll get
out
> of your screens before they go down or the ship is destroyed.
>
> Your test designs use 40% of TMF for hull boxes, which is definitely
> "strong enough" - ie., for them screens are the natural choice as long
> as your enemy uses beams or similar weapons (Pulsers, Stingers, PBLs
> etc). For ships with Average hulls (25-35% of TMF) OTOH, screens and
> armour are roughly equal, and below Average hull integrity the armour
> wins almost every time.
>
> Comparing the delay of *destruction* for screens to the delay of the
> *first threshold* for armour is somewhat misleading as well. Part of
> the delay of destruction for screens occurs after the ship has taken
> its 2nd and 3rd thresholds, by which time it has usually lost quite a
> few of its weapons as well - ie., getting an "extra" hull box of life
> towards the end of the damage track isn't worth as much as getting an
> extra box at its start. The more hull (not armour!) boxes and the
> stronger screens the ship has, the more noticable this effect is.
>
> In short, try replacing 20-40 hull boxes on each test SDN with beam
> weapons, and watch the results change :-)
The strong hull integrity was chosen so that the amount of armor did not
exceed the amount of hull integrity in one row, and be equal to the mass
of
the screens (I wanted a mass for mass comparison). I chose SDN's to
level
out luck and reduce the number of runs needed for a statistically valid
sample. In these battles the ships were pitted against each other.
Statistically, the ship with screens destroyed the ship without more
than
50% of the time, unless there were more than four p-torps on the
vessels.
In the pure beam case, the armor does not even delay the first threshold
check (crunch the numbers, in the pure beam case, they all reach the
first
check at approximately the same time), while the shields delay every
threshold check (and DC are dedicated to repairing the screen
generators).
Unless you can multi-layer armor, or are certain that your opponent does
not use p-torps, missiles or k-guns, more armor than a line of hull
boxes
does little more than offer up the potential indignity of rolling a
threshold check while still having undestroyed armor.
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:42:24 -0600
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
From: "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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Even better is the Bosnia Country Handbook printed by the Department of
the
Army for distro to troops going to Bosnia. It had charts with insignia
of
all the forces involoved in IFOR/SFOR as well as the Former Warring
Factions. Also included were vehicle identification guides for both SFOR
and
FWF vehicles including crew served weapons. There was a breif section on
the
political climate of Former Yugoslavia, as wel as general tactics and
doctrine of the JNA (Jugoslovenska Narodna Armija, Yugolsav National
Army).
If you can get a copy, it's very cool.
----------
>From: "David Rodemaker" <dar@horusinc.com>
>To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
>Subject: RE: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
>Date: Mon, Dec 11, 2000, 3:36 PM
>
> Buy a copy of the "Handbook for Marine NCOs" (My 3rd edition is
published by
> the Naval Institute Press ISBN: 0-87021-254-0) which a good friend of
mine
> (former marine NCO, duh) gave me. My fiancée (former army officer)
even
> admits that the marine handbook is better than anything that army puts
out
> for this purpose (I think that this admission actually caused blood
loss on
> her part). It has exactly the chart you're looking for, all ranks, and
whole
> bunch of other fun information.
>
> David
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
>> [mailto:owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU]On Behalf Of Bell, Brian
K
>> (Contractor)
>> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 11:50 AM
>> To: Gzg-L (E-mail)
>> Subject: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
>>
>>
>> OK, I'm going to show my ignorance (again).
>>
>> Does anyone know of a good chart (preferably on the web) of Military
Rank
>> comparisons from different services and different countries?
>>
>> For instance, the US Army rank of Colonel is equivalent to a Navy
Captain.
>> If I am wrong, no flames please, I will accept gentile
>> correction. This is
>> also not a discussion of merit or general quality, only
>> equivalency of rank.
>> (No flame wars, please).
>>
>> I did find http://www.friesian.com/rank.htm, but it only included the
US
>> Army and Navy and only the commissioned officers.
>>
>> -----
>> Brian Bell
>> bkb@beol.net
>> -----
>>
>>
>
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:45:22 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
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>Is this USN?
Yup, that was right off their website. I guess they've changed. When
I first became a jarhead, they still had Commodore too.
Schoon
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***
Dirty Little Secrets (James Dunnigan, don't know the year offhand but
it's been a while) says that when the USN decided to drop Commodore in
favor of Rear Adm (Lower), a senator involved said "If 'commodore'
was good enough for Perry and John Paul Jones, it's good enough for
soome guys I never heard of!" He was, evidently, not listened to.
***
Great book!
By the way, I believe I once heard of a convention of giving a visiting
Captain a temporary 'promotion', at least in reference, as there 'can
only
be one Captain on a ship'.
Was I hallucinating? (Flashbacks can be SO embarassing...) Was that in
the
US Navy? Does it still happen? I could see Commodore holding over for
just
such a circumstance.
Sorry if this is getting WAY OT, but I've always loved calling the CO's
of
the space stations 'commodore', in my written, but never played,
scenerios.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:46:49 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
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In a message dated 12/11/00 7:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
devans@uneb.edu
writes:
>
> By the way, I believe I once heard of a convention of giving a
visiting
> Captain a temporary 'promotion', at least in reference, as there 'can
only
> be one Captain on a ship'.
>
> Was I hallucinating? (Flashbacks can be SO embarassing...) Was that
in the
> US Navy? Does it still happen? I could see Commodore holding over for
just
> such a circumstance.
>
> Sorry if this is getting WAY OT, but I've always loved calling the
CO's of
> the space stations 'commodore', in my written, but never played,
scenerios.
>
> The_Beast
>
When I was serving on Pegasus she was part of a squadron of PHM's. They
were
commanded by Lt. Commanders and Commanders. The Commander/Captain in
command
of the whole squadron was called the Commodore.
A visiting captain (way back then in the days of sail :-)) was called by
his
command's name. Our skipper would have been called "Pegasus." This was
normal
in referring to CO's in any circumstance. If the associated pronoun was
male,
it was the commander, if female it was the ship or command. Wonder what
happened to that with the rise of woman in the fleet.
A Marine Captain, however got an honorary promotion to Major, to avoid
the
use of Captain for 2 people.
John Rebori ETN2 (Discharged)
USN 1976 - 1982
ex-USS Pegasus PHM-1
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:07:05 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Aaron Teske <ateske@HICom.net>
Subject: Re: No campaign system acceptable for SG2?
In-Reply-To: <200012112055.PAA26495@okura.cowell.org>
References: <Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:49:55 EST."
<604019546FC6D211AE310000F8BCBCEA01A8C385@SABRETOOTH.CORNING.COM>
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At 02:55 PM 12/11/00 -0600, Andy wrote:
>Charles writes:
>>
>> As for ideas, I've always been fond of the merc approach where you
>> start with limited funds and buy your forces and take contracts to
>> earn more money to upgrade and/or buy your forces.
>
>Doesn't this inherently require a points system for SG2?
Not really. Design a series of squads, get all the players to agree to
them (or not, if you're the GM), then give everyone $X amount of "cash"
and
start the bidding wars. Randomly pull the squads from a hat so no one
knows which will be drawn next.
And if you're feeling nasty, don't show them the squads first so they
don't
know what's out there.
Aaron Teske
ateske@HICom.net
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From: "David Rodemaker" <dar@horusinc.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: No campaign system acceptable for SG?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:16:34 -0600
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<snip>
> Any others?
A BT campaign that I played in a long time ago used the following
system.
(Based on BT company sized force)
About 100 scenarios were written up. Everything from single lance
missions
to entire companies. Some were designed so that each player took a
portion
of their forces others were designed so that one of the players played
"NPC's". All different types of missions were written, Recon, Fire
Support,
Patrol, Assault, Convoy Escort, whatever we could think of. Each one had
a
price tag associated with it for successful completion, plus whatever
salvage was reasonable or anything else the scenario gave you.
You sat down and flipped a coin to see was the aggressor and then they
rolled the dice for the scenario, hoping that they would roll up one
that
matched what wasn't too badly shot up at the moment.
When done playing that scenario you switched who was the aggressor and
rolled again. The rule being that you couldn't use the same forces twice
in
the same evening until everything you had had been used. (Actually we
broke
that rule regularly now that I think about it <g>)
Great fun, the "campaign" ran for about 5-6 years before ending.
Starting rules would translate into the SG as follows: (I have actually
been
thinking about putting this together and running a DS/SG campaign for
the
same group so if I come up with a final version I will post)
Each player designs 1 reinforced company (or possibly DS Battle group if
you
want to play "big")with each player having green troops.
Work your way from there. XP will advance the troops as quickly or as
slowly
as desired. Figure out costs for ammo and whatever (fuel??) and run with
it.
You could probably extrapolate costs from DS (which is what I would do)
Hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide more details or
suggestions.
David
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:22:29 EST
Subject: Re: No campaign system acceptable for SG2?
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In a message dated 12/11/2000 11:50:49 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ParrottCP@corning.com writes:
<< > From: Andy Cowell[SMTP:andy@cowell.org]
> Reply To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Sent: 12/11/2000 1:30 PM
> To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject: No campaign system acceptable for SG2?
>
>
> My earlier request for an SG2 campaign system went unanswered-- I
just
> wanted to double-check before I devoted the time to try and make my
> own (never having used one before). Any ideas? >>
Opps, missed it myself. Depends I guess. What's YOUR idea :o)
There is always using something like the old game "Cerberus" which I've
seen
used for StarFire planetary combat. (I always thought it would be good
for a
combined game of Dirtside II and SG2. There are "Special Forces" units
that
can attack such things as the Space ports which would make great SG2
scenerios.)
Though it lacks an "extended" campaign system, I think it would be good
for
what your looking for. (Maybe :o)
Randy
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:24:21 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: [OT] Military Rank Comparison
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>By the way, I believe I once heard of a convention of giving a visiting
>Captain a temporary 'promotion', at least in reference, as there 'can
only
>be one Captain on a ship'.
>
>Was I hallucinating? (Flashbacks can be SO embarassing...) Was that in
the
>US Navy? Does it still happen? I could see Commodore holding over for
just
>such a circumstance.
I think that convention referred to Marine and Army "Captains" visiting
a
navy ship. They would be called "Major" while on board, because a ship
does, as you said, only ever have one Captain.
And interestingly, the "Captain" is an appointment as well as a rank.
In
other words, someone can have the naval rank of "Captain" but not
command a
ship (ie they could hold a staff position, or be in command of a naval
base
or something) and someone can hold the appointment of Captain, but be of
lower rank. An example of this would be a Commander or Lieutenant
Commander who is given command of a Destroyer or Frigate or other
"smaller"
ship. That person would be the "Captain", but isn't a Captain in
rank...
And I have no idea what happens when someone who holds the Naval rank of
Captain boards a ship which is commanded by a Lieutenant Commander...
The
LtCom is the Captain of the ship, but I wonder if there is any change in
what the visiting Captain is called?
Any navy types out there?