Re: [FT, SG] Tell the world, I've updated the page

From: "Beth Fulton" <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
> Derek's asked me to pass along this message for him:
> 
> "I've updated the page with 3 OU ships design and more images"
> 
> So for the gentleman after some OU designs these might be for you.

It might be an idea getting Derek to submit these to the Ship Registry.
I've already just dumped my designs there for the Eureka OU FT ships,
but don't think they've been put in as yet... must check..
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:50 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13484;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:21:27 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBFKig22394;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:20:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 07:20:43 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBFKfZ22365
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:20:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:7dKwVRYLv16bnPegFpm8C2kGZiyQ9Jt5@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBFKYP22320
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:20:34
-0800 (PST)
Received: from dynamite.com.au (m1.dynamite.com.au [203.17.154.18])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBFKWf98518
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:20:33 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from aebrain@dynamite.com.au)
Received: from avis (isp905.canb.dynamite.com.au [202.139.71.143])
	by dynamite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA03480
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:20:23 +1100
Message-ID: <00d601c06386$3ef0a660$8f478bca@avis>
From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@dynamite.com.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References:
<417DEC289A05D4118408000102362E0A34D0A0@host-253.bitheads.com>
<00dc01c060e7$cb7072b0$4d65e03e@ranitzsch>
Subject: Re: Paces as a unit of measure
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:01:45 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000830

From: "Ranitzsch, Karl Heinz" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de>

> An additional problem with 'pace' is that some people reckon a 'pace'
as a
> single step (75 cm, say) and others as a double-step (1,50 m), the
Romans
> for example.

The standard pace in Napoleonic times was a (single) pace of about 30"
(75cm)
or a double of 5 ft. The Roman "Mille" or "Thousand" was thus about 5000
ft
( 5,280 by Imperial standards).

Glad Australia went metric many years ago...
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:50 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14775;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:28:22 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBFRx822591;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:27:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 07:27:58 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBFRv922569
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:27:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:7MJYAmgdiUcm1p1sp8pijaIF0n/yLeCq@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBFRtP22564
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:27:55
-0800 (PST)
Received: from exchange01.dscc.dla.mil (exchange01.dscc.dla.mil
[131.74.160.11])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBFRtf98864
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:27:55 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil)
Received: by exchange01.dscc.dla.mil with Internet Mail Service
(5.5.2653.19)
	id <W6J8NQ9B>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:27:48 -0500
Message-ID:
<9DB05BB477A8D111AF3F00805F5730100D1006E5@exchange01.dscc.dla.mil>
From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [FT, SG] Tell the world, I've updated the page
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:27:47 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000831

No, not yet.
I am having some personal health problems (blood sugar spiked over 500
one day, now on some medication to help control it), so have not been
able 
to muster the energy to update the registry. Heck, I have not yet even
gotten
to Beth's IAS designs. 
I will do better as soon as my health permits.

-----
Brian Bell
bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org	 
-----

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan and Carmel Brain [SMTP:aebrain@dynamite.com.au]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:59 AM
> To:	gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject:	Re: [FT, SG] Tell the world, I've updated the page
> 
> From: "Beth Fulton" <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
> > Derek's asked me to pass along this message for him:
> > 
> > "I've updated the page with 3 OU ships design and more images"
> > 
> > So for the gentleman after some OU designs these might be for you.
> 
> It might be an idea getting Derek to submit these to the Ship
Registry.
> I've already just dumped my designs there for the Eureka OU FT ships,
> but don't think they've been put in as yet... must check..
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:51 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15590;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:30:59 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBFU6s22729;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:30:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 07:30:05 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBFU4O22707
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:30:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:JatqrG6gH/S3VhQCGip2/pg49OGKKyos@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBFU2P22701
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:30:02
-0800 (PST)
Received: from dynamite.com.au (m1.dynamite.com.au [203.17.154.18])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBFTxf98945
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:29:59 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from aebrain@dynamite.com.au)
Received: from avis (isp905.canb.dynamite.com.au [202.139.71.143])
	by dynamite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA04262
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:29:51 +1100
Message-ID: <012f01c06387$91e7db80$8f478bca@avis>
From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@dynamite.com.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References:
<4.2.2.20001208163320.00a2e5d0@pop.hba.marine.csiro.au><4.2.2.2000120910
2803.00a41670@pop.hba.marine.csiro.au>
<20001209.191522.9087.7.triphibious@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [FT, SG] Tell the world, I goofed and acronyms
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:31:57 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000832

From: "Glenn m wilson" <triphibious@juno.com>

> I think my 1908 British Survey of India charts comment over 
***static***
> (country) confirmed the bad news they had heard from the first group
of
> briefings.  Basically all that nice 1990's/2000 stuff over Indonesia
> was.. Australian produced.  One guys uses 1873 charts over part of
BZZZZT
> for his base maps for compilation jobs

Ah the good old Himalaya Survey. Did a bit of work on various surveys,
Ellipsoid models etc back in the 80s for a really long range plot for
Subs.

Hey at the time there were still great swathes of the Pacific where the
most accurate charts were from 1770, done by a bloke called Cook.... 
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:51 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18908;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:46:47 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBFkTW22917;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:46:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 07:46:28 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBFkR822896
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:46:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:aTfWJ8aQeo7w2qlJUU+WTfVHJQiETMgI@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBFkPP22891
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:46:26
-0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp06.mail.onemain.com (SMTP-OUT003.ONEMAIN.COM
[63.208.208.73])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with SMTP id
eBBFkPf00546
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:46:25 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from nsweer@ice.net)
Received: (qmail 26823 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2000 15:46:15 -0000
Received: from maxbloom2-140.fgi.net (HELO ice.net) ([204.120.168.140])
(envelope-sender <nsweer@ice.net>)
	  by 10.209.20.36 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
	  for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; 11 Dec 2000 15:46:15 -0000
Message-ID: <3A34F581.90408@ice.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:40:49 -0600
From: Noel Weer <nsweer@ice.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108
Netscape6/6.0
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Uplift FT (was Re: Am I a Republic revisionist?)
References: <20001129195105.28051.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net>
	 <3A2C222B.ABB975C8@brewer.to>
	 <3A2D868C.1B256632@sympatico.ca>
	 <3.0.5.32.20001205212355.00a17a70@mail.HICom.net>
	 <004301c05f62$e743fc40$0100a8c0@brodm1.vic.optushome.com.au>
	 <001e01c06041$aafcaa40$4c468bca@avis>
	 <3A3017AD.20202@ice.net>
	 <00e801c062a3$f8c7aa40$97478bca@avis>
<4.2.2.20001211151948.00a381c0@pop.hba.marine.csiro.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000833

Some of what I just ordered were the Dirtside scale bugs (that look a 
lot like the ones from that movie that never should have lost the 
Special Effects Oscar to "Titanic"...). I couldn't resist the tempation 
to fight out a small battle with em. :) (Thanks, btw Beth, I noticed the

pics on your site which got me to get them - never woulda thought about 
them otherwise.)

Anyway, are than any standard rules for the use that I have just missed 
in my trolling? My thoughts pretty much have them pegged to treat them 
as walkers for movement, armor 4 or 5 vehicles (so they can be damaged 
for halved movement) tho vulnerable to infantry fire, can only close 
assault, and morale free. Thoughts welcomed...

Beth Fulton wrote:

> G'day guys,
> 
>  >BTW, anyone else in America find it scary that it
>  >is a tad cheaper to order GZG stuff from Eureka in
>  > Aussie-land and pay the shipping then it is to
>  >order from GeoHex with free shipping?
> 
> What's scary is when any one in Aussie land contemplates ordering 
> overseas, but I guess that's what I get for living in a country where 
> the local dollar is really worth about 2 brass razoos! ;)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Beth
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- 
> 
> Elizabeth Fulton
> c/o CSIRO Division of Marine Research
> GPO Box 1538
> HOBART
> TASMANIA 7001
> AUSTRALIA
> Phone (03) 6232 5018 International +61 3 6232 5018
> Fax 03 6232 5053 International +61 3 6232 5053
> 
> email: beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au

-- 
The Middle Ages were a great time to be alive,
because if you weren't wiped out by the Plague
or impaled by some marauding barbarian, then yippee.
      "chocolate covered musings"
      (http://www.amused.com/nick.html)
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:51 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19121;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:48:10 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBFlc222973;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:47:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 07:47:38 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBFlb122952
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:47:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:CUYe/khmvVjEStJQVc2hjZg+tFm1nAYd@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBFlZP22947
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:47:35
-0800 (PST)
Received: from dynamite.com.au (m1.dynamite.com.au [203.17.154.18])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBFlXf00581
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:47:34 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from aebrain@dynamite.com.au)
Received: from avis (isp905.canb.dynamite.com.au [202.139.71.143])
	by dynamite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05453
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:47:26 +1100
Message-ID: <02d401c0638a$06407c60$8f478bca@avis>
From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@dynamite.com.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References:
<9DB05BB477A8D111AF3F00805F5730100D1006E5@exchange01.dscc.dla.mil>
Subject: Re: [FT, SG] Tell the world, I've updated the page
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:49:31 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000834

From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
> I am having some personal health problems (blood sugar spiked over 500
> one day, now on some medication to help control it), so have not been
able
> to muster the energy to update the registry. Heck, I have not yet even
> gotten
> to Beth's IAS designs.
> I will do better as soon as my health permits.

Bugger the registry, just keep healthy mate.

All the best.
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:52 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08517;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:23:09 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBHKXB24259;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:20:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 09:20:31 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBHKUX24238
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:20:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from vex.cs.colorado.edu (vex.cs.Colorado.EDU
[128.138.241.27])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBHKSP24233
	for <gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:20:28
-0800 (PST)
Received: by vex.cs.colorado.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) id eBBHKMm16288
	for gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:20:22
-0700 (MST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:ibO8GXkVUd9VERCW9TtQ4uBmn2Be3Uq1@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBGfkP23723
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:41:46
-0800 (PST)
Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com
[194.25.134.18])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBGfjf05436
	for <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:41:45 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de)
Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.com 
	by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp 
	id 145W19-0005MO-09; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:41:35 +0100
Received: from webmail.t-online.de (320051779127-0001@[194.25.134.49])
by fwd02.sul.t-online.com
	with smtp id 145W12-0kHiOeC; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:41:28 +0100
Date: 11 Dec 2000 16:41 GMT
From: KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de
Subject: Re: [OT] Sub-Himalayan ? was [FT, SG] Tell the world, I goofed
and acronyms
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
X-Mailer: T-Online WebMail 0.99
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Message-ID: <145W12-0kHiOeC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com>
X-Sender: 320051779127-0001@t-dialin.net
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by
scotch.csua.berkeley.edu
 id eBBGfkP23724
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000836

>----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
> From: "Glenn m wilson" <triphibious@juno.com>
> > I think my 1908 British Survey of India charts comment over  
> Ah the good old Himalaya Survey. Did a bit of work on various 
> surveys, Ellipsoid models etc back in the 80s for a really long > 
range plot for Subs.

Subs and the Himalayas ? Is this some kind of hush-hush project ? 
Sub-terranean ? Sub-glacial ?

:-)
Karl Heinz
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:52 2000
Return-Path: <owner-gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Received: from scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (scotch.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.51])
	by lilac.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01245;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:52:54 -0600
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id
eBBGq4p23862;
	Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:52:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 11 Dec
2000 08:51:57 -0800
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBBGpu823840
	for gzg-l-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:51:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(IDENT:KCDMSJEwrFsL+BwLkLFaEOkJ5F0qjIDP@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[128.32.43.52])
	by scotch.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
eBBGptP23835
	for <gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:51:55
-0800 (PST)
Received: from saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu (saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu
[131.230.252.26])
	by soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id
eBBGpsf06233
	for <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:51:54 -0800
(PST)
	(envelope-from jdarnold@siu.edu)
Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
[131.230.252.17])
	by saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04770
	for <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:49:16 -0600
Received: from deathstar (port30.aixdialin.siu.edu [131.230.253.30])
	by saluki-mail.siu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA40516
	for <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:49:13 -0600
From: "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Attachment levels [DS2]
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:50:19 -0600
Message-ID: <NEBBKHOOCLECLODFJBHICEHOCBAA.jdarnold@siu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
In-Reply-To:
<417DEC289A05D4118408000102362E0A34D104@host-253.bitheads.com>
Sender: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Delivered-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Status:   
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: 39d245de00000835

As far as a "possible future" one can look at a modern US Armored
Cavalry
Regiment. Relatively self contained with it's own aviation, ADA, MP's,
engineers, Arty, Mech Inf, Armor and such. I personally think that the
movement of troops will be so expensive that only the smallest possible
unit
will be sent to deal with any potential problems (see "Aliens" for just
such
a case). Given that, it may be safe to say no more than a battalion of
troops would ever be sent to one place at one time. Just a SWAG
(scientific
wild-ass guess), inter-stellar transport may get ridiculously cheap in
the
future.
My Churlish comments appear below between tildes.
~~~~
Like this.
~~~~
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[mailto:owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU]On Behalf Of Barclay, Tom
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:57 AM
To: Gzg Digest (E-mail)
Subject: Attachment levels [DS2]

Mike brown replied to my original post, chock full of good info.
My further comments marked with [Tomb].

First, one overridding question: Mike's answers were based (I think) on
modern doctrine, which is what I asked for. Let us project that the
forces
fighting in the Tuffleyverse will often tend to be smaller (due to
transport
requirements) in total size and more self-reliant, so they may not have
higher-level formations to draw on. This suggests attachment of some
higher
level assets at lower level (even if in small qty) does it not? Because
a
capability usually present at brigade or corps level may still be
required
by a b'n sized force if the nearest brigade HQ is light-years out.

Perhaps this suggests some positions are multi-role (ie the doctors do
dentistry too in these cases). This might be a requirement given that
supporting men and machines in vast numbers is problematic. Thoughts?

------------------------

EW/Comms : Possibly 1 man per platoon, possibly a couple of teams with
CHQ.
Definitely some formation attached at B'n level.
<MWB There is a signal platoon at battalion (3-5 teams and C2)>

[Tomb] C2? Must be an intel guy of some flavour?  How big would these
teams
be? 2 man?

Air Def: GMS/P-Air with infantry platoons. Company might have GMS/L-Air
or
even GMS/H-Air if well equipped. Definitely the B'n would have some
GMS/H-Air. But how many? And what about ZADs or ADS?
<MWB Now consolidated at Brigade (ADA Bty)>

[Tomb] Really? I take it you are referring to ZAD, ADS, TAD? I still
assume
you have Stinger systems actually deployed to the platoons or companies.
I'd
have thought heavy air-def would be a key part of US policy. (Given the
hammering they give everyone ELSE with their air assets).

~~~
A single Stinger team at BN level for Area Anti-Air. BDE and higher
would
have Avengers (Humvees with Stingers). Theatre Air Defense relies on
Patriot.
~~~

Special Forces: If not a dedicated SF unit, these are probably attached
at
Divisional level (at a guess) and temporarily attached down to
battalions,
companies, or even platoons as required by mission. Often operate
independently. They don't like to rely too heavily on normal crunchies
who
might let them down.
<MWB Corps or Theater assets, Usually not seen below Division>

[Tomb] I hadn't realized they were attached so high. I suppose they are
a
very small elite in reality. How many SF personnel are likely to be
operating in a theatre or corps? Would there be a company of them in a
theatre? Or a battalion? or a platoon?

~~~
There was just about a Group (500+/-) in Saudi and environs for
Operation
Desert Shield/Storm. Keep in mind they were not all undertaking Direct
Action operations (actually going out and killing people). Most were
involved in liaison between coalition forces and the CINC Foreign
Internal
Defense (training coalition forces in the Western/NATO way of waging
war).
You can't really say "500 Green Berets are worth XX amount of foreign
troops." They don't work like that. They are what's referred to as a
"Combat
Multiplier." A single SF ODA (Operational Detachment Alpha) is capable
of
training up to a BN of insurgents if properly supplied and supported
form
external sources. Figure 6-8 A-Teams per CO, 3-4 CO per BN, 3-4 BN per
GP.
You do the math. Again, it is highly unlikely that an entire Group would
be
deployed to a theatre. Although the majority of the troops in Op Desert
Shield/Storm were from a single group (which eludes me for the moment, I
want to say 5th SFG), they would have been augmented by other groups,
most
likely 10th and 7th. Maybe some Guard/Reserve units as well (12th and
14th
groups). Plus, they usually answer directly to the CINC or the
ambassador of
the host country. Local commanders may or may not be notified of their
operating within their AO's (most likely would be).
~~~

Intel: Definitely some at divisional level. At B'n level? Probably not
at
company level. And in this, I subsume enemy intel, weather
(meteorology),
sigint/elint , etc.

<MWB Small staff cell at battalion, with EW platoons or companies at
brigade

and higher>

[Tomb] Small is roughly how many at B'n?

~~~
1 S2 officer and 2-3 Intel Analysts, maybe an Interrogator.
~~~

Arty: Well, I assume mortars for Pltn and Company Levels. I assume light
to
medium tube guns for B'n (how many batteries would one expect)? I assume
heavy guns for Div and MRLS systems, although they may temporarily be
attached lower (to companies or b'ns for particular operations).

<MWB Weapons platoon at Company, Mortar platoon (BTY) at Battalion. 
Current
US
has a battalion + at brgiade>

[Tomb] How many tubes in the Co Wpns Pltn and the Btn Mortars?

~~~
2-4 small mortars, 60mm. Plus ATGM's, AGL's, other big stuff.
~~~

<MWB Can't think of any right now, though I'm sure something will come
of
this>

[Tomb] This is gzg-l. :)

~~~
You forgot Chemical, MP, Psyop, Civil Affairs, various liaison types,
etc.
Most of these types would be either too high a level to worry about or
too
hard to model in a game like SG2/DS2.
Jay
~~~