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Too many Brians... not quite so bad as too many Toms

From: "Thomas.Barclay" <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:53:41 -0500
Subject: Too many Brians... not quite so bad as too many Toms

[Bri] True, but the same weapon firing at a size 1 target would only
a maximum effective range of (5x12"x1=) 60" SG or 6" DS2. EXACTLY
the same as the PA-carried weapon. Granted, if the target is larger, 
then vehicle weapons gain an advantage.
The breakdown in the system is that SG2 has 2 different mechanics for 
firing weapons. One for Infantry and one for vehicles. 
I wish that the ranges were left as stated in DS2. A MDC-1 should be
able to target infantry at a SG range of 160" (DS 16"). Bad news for 
anyone caught by it, but then again it SHOULD be bad news. Now,
if that were broken down into 5 range bands, it should be 32" to the
range band for MDC-1. Against non-infantry targets, it would have a
SG range of 240" (DS 24"), and range bands would be at 48".

In the Grey Day scenario, I was TROUBLED to see a tank with a 
HKP-5 or MDC-5 (can't remember) not be able to target a vehicle that
would have been at short range in DS2 (30" or 36" [300" or 360" SG 

** I have to admit to some preplexity here. On the flank I was running,
there was a human tank, a human tank destroyer, and three KV tanks
Once LoS was established, there was no weapon which was not in range.
The KV
railguns (Equivalent of an HKP-5) on the heavy tanks had a 60" range as
the HKP/4 and DFFG/4 on the human vehicles (as did the DFFG/3 on the
KV tank). Not one of them was out of range IFF: 1) They had successfully
spotted their target or been handed on, 2) The target had not moved out
LoS, 3) They had any actions left to use to shoot. The entire tank
occurred (due to dense terrain, at about 350m). If one was firing at a
target (ie the Tank Destroyers remote casement turret and the tank
having stealth) it might be that a shot couldn't be had considering the
cover present, but I don't recall that event occuring. 

** From my recollection, the human tank had the KV spotted ahead of
came out to engage, destroyed one enemy tank, then was itself immolated
the following activation. The TD fired once, was either not spotted or
one had activations left to fire at it, and it backed down a hill out of
LoS. Later it reappeared for another shot. It seemed very much to me
(due to
the long weapon ranges (smallest target was effective class 2 so minimum
range was 120") that he who could bear and recognize his target could

[Bri] Many of the rules are beautiful. However, I object to the game
divergence between DS2 and SG2. One would think that two SF
ground combat games from the same company would fit the mechanics
in such a way that given 2 identical situations in both games that
the results would be similar. This, unfortunately, is not the case with
DS2 and SG2. 

** Never seen it done. Not by GW (contrast space hulk, 40K, and space
crusade). Not by FASA (RL/Leviathan/Interceptor - not a particularly
integration). Not by any other company I am aware of. If one tries to
represent all of these situations to produce similar results, then one
the intricacies. And generally the games are less fun. I suspect this is
it is not often done. 

I originally purchased FT. Then MT. Then DS2. While
on the list, I kept reading posts that used the same terminology as
the DS2 game, but the mechanics and results seemed skewed.
Eventually I purchased a copy of SG2 just to be able to look up the
references from the Mailing List posts. I expected some differences,
since the scales of the games are different. What I was not expecting
is that tactics used on one game, if used in the other game, bring
about VASTLY different results.

** From what I've seen, because the domains aren't terribly compatible
is an infantry squad game, the other is a combined arms/combat team game
with an armour emphasis), you have a hard time writing a scenario for
which would be within the context of both games which will give you a
point of comparison. 

** I believe sound tactics apply in both. YMMV. 

When the long awaited 'Bugs Don't Surf' comes out,
I hope that there will be a section that brings the two systems closer
together (in results if not mechanics).

** If it does, I hope it leans towards SG2. I'm not interested in
SG2 by making the entire game board a deathground in which armour

Thomas Barclay
Software UberMensch
xwave solutions
(613) 831-2018 x 3008

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