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Re: DS II Infantry vs vehicles

From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@t...>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:21:48 +0100
Subject: Re: DS II Infantry vs vehicles

Brian Bilderback wrote:

>Let's say that the GMS roughly equates to the futuristic version of a
>TOW, or Hellfire, or Dragon (Depending on whether it's H or L).  And
>according to the book, the IAVR equates to the modern LAW or RPG.

Including LAWs like the AT4/M136 :-/

>But there's a whole class of weapon left out of the occasion.	What
>about larget direct-fire infantry-fired rockets and recoilless
systems, like >the SMAW or B-300 or Carl Gustav?

You mean "Javelin or Kestrel or MBT-LAW", not "SMAW or B-300 or Carl
Gustav" - and even with this change, only Javelin approaches the range
you're suggesting; Kestrel and MBT-LAW only having a range of 4-6" in
DSII. And all three are vulnerable to both ECM (to varying degrees) and
point defence.

The Carl Gustav firing anti-armour rounds (751 or 551 HEAT, or possibly
the HEDP) is a multiple-shot IAVR. The range could *possibly* be
extended to 6" in DSII, but that's it - while the warhead is powerful
enough to warrant more than 2 chits, the hit probability, particularly
against moving targets, doesn't. If you want 3-4 damage chits (the 751
round in particular would probably rate 4), you have to introduce a
to-hit roll for this "IAVR".

What the Carl Gustav *can* do, but which the others can't and which
your suggestion completely ignores, is act like an SAW (firing 441 frag
rounds or the APM beehive used by the US Rangers), ultra-light HEF (441
frag rounds or HEDP in HE mode at long range - up to ~1 mile or so) and
lay illumination or smoke (again up to ~1 mile away). You'll have to
bring the right ammo for it though (use the artillery ammo game
mechanics for this).

Note that the effective range of a Carl Gustav is *much* longer when
firing indirectly at area targets (the smoke/illum/HE effects described
above) - a mile, or even somewhat longer for some types of ammo - than
the effective range of the direct-fire anti-armour rounds (up to about
5-600 meters - further than that you'll have to be very good, or very
lucky, to hit the target). 

Increasing the velocity of the round won't improve this range very much
for an unguided round - you need it to be at least inertially guided,
ie able to correct its course if disturbed by wind etc.

I don't remember the effective range of the SMAW off hand, but the
warhead and hit probabilities aren't that different from those of our

Mind you, *none* of the CG rounds go fast enough to be unstoppable by
point defence, and neither do any other HEAT missiles. Heck, even *KE*
rounds (Mach 4-5) aren't fast enough for today's AFV point defence
systems to track and lock on to, though I don't think any current such
system is able to actually deflect or disrupt KE rounds. No doubt that
will change in the future.


Oerjan Ohlson

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry

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