Re: Snipers, Mr. Sarno!

Tom,
	I thought we were on a first name basis. <g>

kaladorn@fox.nstn.ca wrote:

> Mike: The mechanism of openshifting fire die means the sniper is more
> likely to get spotted the further he is from the enemy.... very odd
> that.

    Actually, only open shifting the QUALITY die has that effect, which
I
stated.  If you don't like it, feel free to disallow sniper shots beyond
the firepower die shift.  Alternately, you could have the sniper roll
his
original quality die to check for a '1' only, but count the shifted
quality die for suppression and effectiveness.	You could always keep
the
rules as written, too! <g>
    Even with the open-shifted quality die, this only occurs after the
firepower die has shifted to D4.  There are four sniper rifles listed on
p.27: Conventional Sniping Rifle FP:D10, Gauss Sniping Rifle FP:D10,
Laser
Sniping Rifle FP:D12, and Heavy Anti-Material Rifle FP:D8.  So at a
minimum, you need to shift down the D8 two times to get to D4, and then
a
third time to lower the quality die, which will increase the chances of
being spotted.	So, at a minimum, we're talking about the 8th range
band.
For a regular quality sniper, each range band is 16".  That means you
don't get into the 8th range band until you're taking a shot over 112"
or
9'4".  We've never had a sniper take a shot at this range.  In fact, we
don't even play on a table which would physically allow it.  It's just
an
interesting side effect of our house rule which open shifts firepower
and
quality dice.
    In the ground scale, though, that's 1120 meters.  It does seem odd
that you'd be able to pick out a sniper at such a long range, but then
again, the sniper may have to expose himself to take such a long shot. 
It
also means that there is a longer flight time for the projectile or
beam,
which might make it easier to track.  There is also a longer time
between
when the round or beam hits and when the sound arrives.  This may give
some advantage in determining the direction of the sniper.  Then finding
him might be easier since, because of the longer time between the hit
and
the sound, you have a better idea about the range.
    However, when we discussed this, we just thought it would be a nice
game effect.  If you want to try to take such a long shot, there are
risks.

> Part of the historical reason this situation of varied use has come to
> pass is that sniper success is highly debatable on a large scale
> (unlike in SG2 where I think its pretty notable!). Yes, snipers have
> brought down targets way out of proportion to their rounds fired as
> compared to the rest of the forces, but even in Vietnam their usage
> was limited enough due to often being commanded by B'n or Divisional
> officers who had no idea how to implement a sniper doctrine (and oft
> times, neither did the snipers). But were they really effective war
> winners? Who can say? Not I. Some snipers got 93 kills (Gunny Hatcock)
> or 103 (Sgt. Waldron) and others got 1 or 2.

    Michael Lee Lanning concludes in his book, _Inside the Crosshairs:
Snipers in Vietnam_
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0804116202/qid%3D945181144/103-6
818742-4531822),
that snipers, while individually impressive, contributed very little to
the effort in Vietnam.	 From reading your post, I think you've read it.

> In SG2, I try to differentiate between snipers and marksmen. (Adrian
> got me started on this difference). Snipers I let do the "go hide"
> thing. I also let them move hidden (at risk of revealing themselves).
> I let them get double range AND pick their targets. Marksmen I treat
> in a more limited fashion like a specialized support weapon. I let
> them fire with or apart from the squad. If with the squad, they add
> their die. If separate, they get their dice *and* the doubled range
> bands. I'd only let these guys pick their targets IFF they make a
> 'spot target' check first (spotting roll). They just aren't quite the
> same as normal snipers, but are often more ubiqutious. These guys I'd
> put in my SF teams (if I didn't have a real sniper), in my FSE
> infantry sections (saw this in Bosnia), and at least one per platoon
> in most modern forces. Sometimes (because they can shoot further),
> they replace one SAW in a platoon. I also penalize snipers without
> spotters (and marksmen) 1 downshift on FP - the spotter should help
> their efficacy. It also helps make them  bearable to have on the
> field. The spotter (if with a hiding-sniper) just moves and hides with
> the sniper. He helps the sniper by spotting, by carrying him out if he
> is hit, and by carrying a silenced SMG or some such close in weapon in
> case the sniper position gets overrun while they are sniping or
> hiding.

    This sounds like an excellent variant.  We might put this to use
around here.  How many "marksmen" do you usually assign to a platoon?

> I'd say I wouldn't let snipers fire out beyond their maximum range...
> They don't waste rounds.

    Agreed, if he's doing that, he ceases to be a sniper.

-Mike

--
Michael Sarno

http://vietnam.isonfire.com
Check out the Charlie Company Discussion Group:
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skirmish wargame of infantry combat in Vietnam 1965-1972

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 on its military forces alone."
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		  US Army, retired