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Re: SGII Newbie Question

From: Los <los@c...>
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:51:38 -0400
Subject: Re: SGII Newbie Question



UsClintons@aol.com wrote:

> It seems to me that you are trying to put use human psychology to
explain
> NON-human behavior.
>

Not at all. It's not human psychology but the simple constant of
lethality vs
dispersion.  Stargrunt is attempting to simulate (in some small degree),
real
tactics and battlefield effects. Modern weapons and lethality have
driven
everyone over the years towards smaller primary groups, more reliance on
lower
level leaders and more dispersion to counteract the effects of
lethality.
However the ORCs large squads can have great advantages in the fact that
hey are
capable of sustaining more losses so are not as brittle.

>
> What if orcs were simply too socially unruly to be able to operate in
'small'
> units?  What if orcs simply were simply not as individualistic as
humans and
> had a much more 'mob mentality'.  What if any of 1,000 things that we
simply
> cannot comprehend (because we have yet to meet another sentient race)
kept
> orcs from forming 'smaller' units?  Thus LARGER units really would be
more
> efficient for THEM (given this psychology).  Again this all stems from
me
> wanting orcs to be orcs and not green space marines. :-]
>

I'm not saying that the ORCS must operate in smaller units. Hell they
wouldn't be
ORCS if they didn't operate in mobs.  I'm just saying that they will pay
for that
in any type of rules system that makes a half hearted attempted a
simulating
actual combat. You are absolutely right in that when you have low
quality troops
that can't act or think for themselves, AND when you combine that with a
 lack of
junior leaders, you are very well going to  run into  a mass of driving
cattle.
But that doesn't mean that HE, frags, MLPs, AGLs, and such weapons are
going to
be somewhat less forgiving on them than they are smart troopers.

>
> Also under your explanation (if I understand you correctly) the most
> 'efficient' unit would be ONE man squads...if the tech. existed and
the
> training could be achieved to coordinate the 'squads', right?  Think
of the
> flexibility, firepower, etc.	Of course this is just not possible for
> humans...perhaps for some 'bug' like alien or telepathic space
creature, but
> not humans.  :-)
>

Don't be foolish, there is a mix of firepower and sustainability given
that 'll
work fine. After that you make other amends to the system to bend them
your way.
Actually telepathy would actually help control larger sized units and
perhaps
over greater distances too. That would be the Tyrannids no?

>
> As for the tech. thing, again you are simply paraphrasing GW's idea of
orcs
> (I think), not mine.	In the old "Rogue Trader" days such things were
left up
> to the players and our group developed a nice background to support
OUR idea
> of orcs.  It was not like it is now where 40K players are spoon-fed a
history
> like it or not. :-(
>

Sorry.	I thought you said you were basing your ORCS on the RT 40k
universe? You
know you playing all your cards very close to your vest, giving us
little
snippets of your orcs and then we're supposed to know how the heck you
should
work them in SG2? Since you are the one asking for opinions how about
shitting us
some more detail on those vile things of yours? <joke.>  If they are
walking
around in suits and ties how the heck are we supposed to know that?   We
know
nothing about your custom made ORCS but then when something gets said
you go all
defensive.

Instead of these one sided conversations why not post some stats? Then
we can see
what your Orcs are on to and make meaningful contributions (which is why
I assume
you are asking for opinions in the  first place?) Heck I gave shitload
of ORCs to
my cousin when he was into 40k and now I've got him into SG2 so it would
be good
to see some rules to use them. he's too young to have money to go and
buy all new
figs and he does have a lot of 40k stuff.

>
> On a side note:  I think SGII will suffer because it does NOT
'spoon-fed' a
> history.  It would seem most of the people that play sci-fiction
miniatures
> seem to WANT to be 'spoon-fed' a history.

Well the development of stargrunt's history has been a great and
detailed pastime
for most of the people on this list, though most of the discussion
lately has
been on the GZG pedia list. Most people also have other backgrounds they
game the
system in. There's hardly anything to worry about SG2 as we keep on
getting
people dribbling in here as they wake up from GWs anesthesia.

Cheers...

Los

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