[ds] modern tanks was Re: [ds] Ogres

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Andrew & Alex wrote:
> Thomas Anderson wrote:
> >i'd be interested to know what equipment you would give it. a
challenger
> >has a 120 mm main gun, a coax 7.62 mm MG, a pintle 7.62 mm MG and
some
> >smoke launchers.
>     Well, I've been thinking about 120mm guns. And, even though in
recent
> posts, I've suggested that 120mm guns are size 5, I'm now thinking
that
> modern western 120mm guns are size 6 HVC with HKP range.

could you explain your logic here?

> I would put Soviet
> and Chinese guns as one step worse and with HVC range. I would also
suggest
> that Western fire control is even better than Brilliant fire control
(1D12).
> Perhaps even to the stage of allowing a secondary crew quality roll,
much
> like SGII, to help in hitting the target. Or even allowing automatic
hits if
> the crew are not underfire.

why? if western fc is the best, make it Superior and only let everyone
else have Basic.

>     So, we've got a size 6 gun in a turret (18CP) and one extra APSW
(1CP);

well, size 6 guns are not allowed, but i think we can ignore that as
they
are clearly a Good Thing. i'm not sure that two 7.62 mm mg's (one coax)
counts as two apsw; remember that a typical apsw is supposed to be an
hmg
or a grenade launcher.

> a total of 19CP with 6CP spare, assuming a size 5 hull. I would
suggest that
> out of the remaining 6CP, 1CP is wasted. The vehicle hull has one or
two
> levels of stealth (assumed to be better manufacturing methods, rather
than
> DSII's electronic stealth field) and the remaining 5CP could be used
to help
> improve frontal armour to, say, level 6. Smoke dischargers don't count
for
> capacity.

i'm not too happy about the stealth. is an m1a1 actually harder to hit
than a 60-tonne tank from a less-developed army?

>     I've assumed that you can spend spare capacity on improving armour
> level. As a rough guide, using CP equal to front armour level
increases
> front armour level by one. This would cost about 1-2 points per CP
used.

how about cp equal to vehicle size class can be used to improve one
facing
by one level? in the case of modern tanks, it might be the top or back,
as
they have quite good armour all round.

>     Challengers and M1A2s are reputed to be quite tough. See Tom
Clancy's
> book on the US armoured cavalry for more. Both the Challenger and the
M1A2
> are very similar at this level of detail.

an mbt is basically the best gun you have got, mounted on tracks and
armoured, so for two nations at roughly the same level of technology,
their mbt's will inevitably be quite similar.

how about this for the generic mbt: size 4 (20 cp), armour 4 size 6 gun
in
turret (18), your choice of extra apsw (1), another extra apsw (1), apfc
(1). less advanced countries lose out on fire control or only get level
3
armour.

Tom