RE: [SG] Orbats (was Full Thrust : Electronic Warfare)

How 'bout this:

US Armoured Company Combat Group:

Infantry Platoon:
4 Bradley IFV's with 3 crew, 6 dismount infantry each

3 Tank Platoons:
4 MBT's with 4 crew each

HQ
2 MBT's with 4 crew
2 Command Vehicles

Support Platoon:
2 Logistic Vehicles
1 Ambulance
etc.

This is really approximate 'cause I made it up to illustrate the point,
but
you get the general idea.

You get 12 to 18 tanks, 24 infantiers in 4 IFV's plus the supporting
elements.

In the Canadian Forces, we'd probably do it with four IFV's with 3 crew
and
a complete 8 person infantry section, for 32 infantiers, but the idea is
the same.  You can have a company sized force with few infantry, fully
capable of protracted operations.  It really depends what kind of
protracted operations you mean.  This kind of formation would be working
in
a Battalion Battle Group, and would have other units supporting it - you
wouldn't send it on independent operations without adding the necessary
support elements.  Comparing it to the SAS isn't really fair - they work
completely differently.  An SASR Troop doesn't do combined arms
armoured/mechanized stuff - they do raiding/recce/spec ops stuff.  They
would need more infantiers, 'cause that's ALL they have.  And how often
do
they operate as a full Troop anyway?  There were instances in the Gulf
of
the UK SAS operating as full Troop teams (motorbike equipped scouts, the
rest of the Troop in LWB land rovers and a UNIMOG truck as the Troop
support vehicle) - but I would think that isn't how they would normally
work.

By the way - the TOE for the New Israelis that I got off the net has 24
person platoons (5 squads of 4, with a command team of 4).  Again - the
TOE
depends on the mission - the New Israelis are basically a commando
assault
force - so they can organize that way.	The UK SAS uses 20-man Troops (I
believe) - again, 5 sabre teams of four men each.

Also, you could always play the force as a composite unit made up of
survivors - an infantry platoon meshed in with an armoured unit after
both
had taken casualties.

What we want to avoid is "power gamers" taking advantage of the command
ability to transfer actions by building a small force with many levels
in
the chain of command  ie  company and platoon command squads able to
reactivate other squads, but you've only really got a single reinforced
platoon size unit...  Having a company formation with only 24 infantry
can
make sense in context, but only in certain contexts - as a regular
formation I agree it doesn't make too much sense, particularly from a
game-play point of view.

Adrian.

At 08:28 AM 11/6/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Aw come on now. Even an SASR Troop (platoon equivalent) is more than 24
men.
>So even with 6 man squads you are talking 5 squads including the
command
>element!? The size of the force you are talking about is unlikely to be
able
>to conduct protracted operations at any intensity?!
>
>Owen G
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ScottSaylo@aol.com [mailto:ScottSaylo@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, 6 November 1998 12:28
>To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [SG] Orbats (was Full Thrust : Electronic Warfare)
>
>
>>24 infantry can make a company when other company elements are armored
and
>support. Check out your Task Force guidelines for modern US and RA
>formations.
>platoons shuffled around to make up company sized task forces are the
rule -
>not the exception (besides theres also an eight man battle suit squad).
>