Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com> wrote:
>If you are using "Nuclear Suppression Dampers" you are not playing with
the
>Ogre background.  Nukes in Ogre are cheap, plentiful, and definitely
not
>suppressed.  Indeed, if I recall correctly, virtually everything fires
>nukes, from the Infantry to the GEVs.	Frankly, I would stick with Ogre
>Miniatures itself to play a pure Ogre battle, and not use DSII at all. 
To
>adapt an Ogre to a regular DSII battle is another story...I'd lose the
>Nukes entirely, for one thing.  Too many Nukes can really spoil a DSII
>game.	And yes, the modular vehicle rules would need work.  Lots of it.
    Reduce DSII nuke to doing, say, 10 points of damage against one
target
vehicle. You would have to do some work and be interested in the
background.
I'm not familiar with it, so I can't do much more than this.

>>"They brought tanks to a PA fight?", the squad members go to ground,
>>laughing, as Rico fires a nuke into the tank assembly area.
>
>Definitely not.  Personally, I would never attempt to simulate ST in
25mm
>scale; it simply would not work.  500m is 50 inches on the tabletop,
and
>two jumps (at most) are going to take the MI right off the board. 
Plus, at
>that scale, one Nuke would wipe out the entire board, and that's not a
lot
>of fun.  For DSII, it might be workable-didn't someone do rules for
>this?-but it wouldn't necessarily be pretty.  I wouldn't want to be the
guy
>playing the bugs....
    Actually, I was thinking of DSII scales, but wrote the jumping
distance
wrong. I would probably use 1.2 Km jumping distances and eliminate GMS.
Rico's missile seemed to be of limited guidance ability. By the way, ST
plays like WWII with PA. It was based on Heinlein's experience in naval
warfare, and then he extrapolated.

>But SGII really doesn't deal with armor battles very well.  It's not
>intended to.  And a lot of the sources cited above include armored
>vehicles.  Lots of them.
    I'm not familiar with all the sources. They seemed to be more suited
to
SGII from Mikko's descriptions.

>I am beginning to agree with the writer of the "SGII Players vs. 40K
>Players" list...both groups of players seem unable to admit that their
game
>of choice is not the be-all and end-all of SF miniature gaming.
    GZG DSII and SGII are the best games currently available for modern,
ultramodern, and near future wargaming. The rules do need some polishing
to
suit ultra modern capabilities.

>I am
>sorry, but no game, no matter how good, is going to be able to simulate
>everything that a player could possibly desire.
    Absolutely.

>DSII and SGII both reflect
>a particular view of SF warfare, and are very good at simulating it,
...
    Yes.
>... but
>there are other views that are equally valid.	Look at "Dune", look at
"The
>Forever Peace", look at "The Diamond Age", look at Iain Banks "Culture"
>novels...hell, I would cheerfully bet on one Culture drone against an
>entire platoon of "Starship Troopers" MI.  And I would not use SGII to
>simulate the battle.
    Yes, how do we simulate a worm? Maybe like weather perhaps, or a
nuke
effect but with no radiation.
    I read "The Diamond Age", I liked it, but I don't remember any
armour
battles in it. There were social conflicts and character conflicts,
though.
    I _am_ a member of the Culture! ;-) How did you know? :-)

>There is no such thing as the perfect game, no matter what people
think.
    Yes, you're right.
>It's a delusion common to 40K players, and it's the one thing that most
>infuriates me about them.
    Lack of experience/reading. They're young.
>I think that the people on this list tend to be
>a bit more open-minded, but there seems to be something of the same
>attitude here as well.
    I'd like to think so, but I think Mikko's depressed. I was trying to
encourage him.

>Me, I'm willing to admit that even 40K has its good
>points.
>You just have to look reeeeeeal hard to find them.
    WH40K brings new players into wargaming. Most young gamers are into
powergaming which GW feeds or is it the other way round? When the young
gamers grow up, they either leave or look around for something better.
Which
we can offer.

Andrew Martin
Shared email: Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz
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