Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

At 11:29 PM 9/6/98 +1200, you wrote:

[SNIP]

>>Let's say Ogre. Needs tougher modular vehicles. Again, something must
be
>>done about the missiles.
>    Reduce GMS damage to 1 per size class. GMS/L = 1 chit. GMS/H = 2
chits.
>Nuclear suppression dampers (see my site) negate nukes. Modular
vehicles,
>make parts out of large vehicles, use level 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 armour as
>appropriate. Assume no size penalty for ogres.

If you are using "Nuclear Suppression Dampers" you are not playing with
the
Ogre background.  Nukes in Ogre are cheap, plentiful, and definitely not
suppressed.  Indeed, if I recall correctly, virtually everything fires
nukes, from the Infantry to the GEVs.  Frankly, I would stick with Ogre
Miniatures itself to play a pure Ogre battle, and not use DSII at all. 
To
adapt an Ogre to a regular DSII battle is another story...I'd lose the
Nukes entirely, for one thing.	Too many Nukes can really spoil a DSII
game.  And yes, the modular vehicle rules would need work.  Lots of it.

[SNIP]

>>Let's say Starship troopers the book.
>    Play Star Grunt II, but allow the starship trooper GMS teams to
fire
>nuke shells. Allow PA to jump 500m? at a time. Disallow vehicles. Rico
says,
>"They brought tanks to a PA fight?", the squad members go to ground,
>laughing, as Rico fires a nuke into the tank assembly area.

Definitely not.  Personally, I would never attempt to simulate ST in
25mm
scale; it simply would not work.  500m is 50 inches on the tabletop, and
two jumps (at most) are going to take the MI right off the board.  Plus,
at
that scale, one Nuke would wipe out the entire board, and that's not a
lot
of fun.  For DSII, it might be workable-didn't someone do rules for
this?-but it wouldn't necessarily be pretty.  I wouldn't want to be the
guy
playing the bugs....

[SNIP]

>>Hmmm... now that I think of it, I can't recall a *single* science
fiction
>>story with combat that plays like DSII. They probably exist, yes, but
>>either I've never read one or it didn't leave any lasting impression.
>    Your books seem to deal mostly in things probably best covered by
SGII.

But SGII really doesn't deal with armor battles very well.  It's not
intended to.  And a lot of the sources cited above include armored
vehicles.  Lots of them.  

>No doubt I've missed something, but then I haven't read/viewed all of
the
>source material.
>
>Andrew Martin

I am beginning to agree with the writer of the "SGII Players vs. 40K
Players" list...both groups of players seem unable to admit that their
game
of choice is not the be-all and end-all of SF miniature gaming.  I am
sorry, but no game, no matter how good, is going to be able to simulate
everything that a player could possibly desire.  DSII and SGII both
reflect
a particular view of SF warfare, and are very good at simulating it, but
there are other views that are equally valid.  Look at "Dune", look at
"The
Forever Peace", look at "The Diamond Age", look at Iain Banks "Culture"
novels...hell, I would cheerfully bet on one Culture drone against an
entire platoon of "Starship Troopers" MI.  And I would not use SGII to
simulate the battle.

Or look at the "Honor Harrington" books.  HH is a good series, and one
that
a lot of people on this list (myself included) are very fond of.  It is
not, however, a series that can accurately be simulated by Full Thrust,
despite people's best efforts.	A battle in HH is nothing like a FT
battle.
 Sorry, but that's the way it is.  You can do HH rules for Full Thrust,
but
they are not going to be a very good reflection of the books.  And thus,
a
friend of mine has been working an entirely new set of rules for playing
battles in the Honor Harrington universe.  He's even designing and
casting
his own ships out of resin.  And, despite this, he still plays and
enjoys
Full Thrust.

There is no such thing as the perfect game, no matter what people think.
It's a delusion common to 40K players, and it's the one thing that most
infuriates me about them.  I think that the people on this list tend to
be
a bit more open-minded, but there seems to be something of the same
attitude here as well.	Me, I'm willing to admit that even 40K has its
good
points.

You just have to look reeeeeeal hard to find them.

John Crimmins
johncrim@voicenet.com