Re: Planetary Infrastructure/Invasion/etc

Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> One thing to keep in mind with colony worlds and Earth is what I call
> 'depth of infrastructure' : Basically, here on Earth there's a vast
> infrastructure that we hardly ever think about.
> 
> If you have a car, think of this: the steel and other metals started
as
> ore from a mine somewhere, went to a refinery/smelter complex, then
> through one or more factories before it became your car. Ditto for
rubber,
> plastics, electronics, etc - all the complex bits of a car. Then
theres
> the selling and support structures - transporting of new cars,
selling,
> garages and gas - especially gas. All of this involves masses of
> resources, transport systems, and usually several different nations.
> 
> Damn few colonies will be able to muster this, usually. We can argue
> specifics and tech differences, but the basics of building a car won't
> change that much, I'd think. And of course military vehicles have even
> more specialized needs that civilian vehicles (armour, weapons,
> electronics, etc).

Counterpoint - much of our infrastructure exists to build more 
infrastructure and support itself and is not a producting element. 
The problem of scale.... 

Counterpoint - nothing says I can't build an easy to maintain, rugged 
vehicle or tool much more simply than an overfeatured, pork barrelled 
one produced by our infrastructure (whose goal is to grow its own 
existence as much as it is to provide a workable end product). I may 
not have the maximum electronics, or the newest tech gizmos, but it 
can still be quite deadly, even with a smaller infrastructure.

Further, a colony, by def'n, has a focused structure in many cases 
- because it doesn't have population or resources, it has to make up 
for it by doing the things it needs to (and I'd assume this to 
include machining things one can't get shipped, building new things 
required in the new environment that would cost too much and take too 
long to design and ship from civilization, etc.) very well, if on a 
small scale. I think a small 10K person colony might well have	the 
resources (in terms of fabricating some stuff) of a 250K city back 
home, plus some specialized stuff that the city wouldn't have. It 
would lack in luxuries, and some things may have to be imported due 
to lack of local resources, but for sheer transport costs, most 
things would be done locally or not at all. And your colonists 
(assuming not forced colonization) are usually your pioneers and 
those who can do for themselves. Where you or I might not know how to 
treat a gunshot without a doctor, how to fix a broken Diesel on the 
APC without a mechanic, or know how to fabricate a rifle without a 
factory full of guys and a bunch of engineers with design systems, 
your local colonist might well have developed ways of doing these 
things out of necessity or at least have skills which quickly adapt 
to these situations. 

> Colonies could set up the more basic manufacturing processes fairly
> quickly, probably - things like ammo, basic trucks, maybe handweapons
-
> but most colonies are going to be dependant on outside sources for
heavy
> weapons, AFVs etc for a generation or two.

Simple AFVs can be produced almost anywhere (look around at earth if 
you don't believe it) like armoured cars with LPGs and MGs. Now MBTs 
with Hyper Velocity Smoothbores are different I admit. And A Wild 
Weasel is a whole other kettle of fish. But a Heavy Weapon can just 
be a bigger version of a simple smaller weapon. A big HEL might not 
be as complex to build as you suspect or even that expensive - except 
for the fact that on civilized worlds they are trying to control 
proliferation and on civilized worlds production costs are orders of 
magnitude more (labour rates, specialization, unions, restrictive 
laws, tarrifs, trade regulations, etc. all factor in). You may find 
your colonists can produce six wheeled lightly armoured cars with 
kick ass HELs. 

A lot comes down to what flavour you want your colonies to have, and 
they needn't have all the same flavour - some might be easy pickings, 
others a tough nut to crack.

> Colonies are going to be exporters of raw materials, I'd think, but
> importers of almost anything else - the neccesary depth of
infrastructure
> will take time to develop. And if a war or something disrupts the
whole
> infrastructure, add years to the time needed.

The problem for a lot of colonies might not be the fact they can only 
make simple, deadly vehicles with spartan conditions (as opposed to 
the complex, deadly vehicles with comfy conditions produced by major 
military industrial complexes), but rather that they can only produce 
100 per year... whereas the homeworld can produce 100 000. But then, 
if (as we've argued) the space transport capacity is limited and 
expensive, that gap may be much less pronounced. 

> In FT/DS/SG game turns, this means that a wheeled light APC might be
the
> local norm, as it's the only armoured vehicle a colony can locally
produce
> - and locally make spare parts for. Ditto for the fancier weapon
systems -
> HELs, DFFGs, Infantry Plasma weapons, etc. It would take a very mature
> colony to produce & maintain an aerospace fighter, and an even older
one
> to produce any sort of starship.

I agree with your comments on fighters and starships, although I 
don't necessarily think HELs or DFFGs are in the same category - 
rationale goes : Colony isn't the wild west - it's something planned 
by some gov't. If it is not a penal colony or a forced migration, but 
rather is a planned expansion, it'll have a good level of support in 
order to get it going and self sufficient which would include power 
capabilities, and if Fusion power is the norm, and lasers used for 
mining etc, it might well be that both these weapons systems are 
within their capability. Now, the fire control might be a problem, 
but basic fire control on a HEL system could still be quite 
dangerous.
 
> If your vehicles and spare parts are shipped in, you can of course
have
> any tech level you care to pay for - but what happens if your
supply-line
> gets cut? Gonna take that 100-ton HEL/5 armed grav-tank to the local
> garage? That mechanic could handle the local militia's wheeled APCs -
> they're just the local truck chassis with armour - but your 100-ton
> FGP-powered supertank? Might as well render it down for scrap metal,
or
> parts for the rest of your supertanks...

Unless your truck is (because fusion power has turned out to be 
small, cheap and reliable) a fusion powered hover vehicle too.... In 
which case he might have similar spares... which frontier skills let 
him adapt to use in your tank. But (your point I think) if you want 
parts for your ECM rig and your fire control, better park the tank. 

Which also suggests mobile forces of high tech units have a huge 
logistics support, since supply might be MONTHS away, and attacks on 
these support units could render a large formation combat ineffective 
in days or weeks due to breakdowns, etc.
 
>  Something to think about for any strategic-level thinking &
> background development, anyway. Comments always welcomed...

And gladly given!
  
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