RE: This 'A' battery is as good as any other 'A' battery. (LONG)

I think the "this A battery is as good as any other A battery" does hold
up pretty good.  Look at what you just described.  Sure the pistols you
fired had variances but they were all 'pistols'.  If I were to take the
generalization further I could classify pistols, rifles and grenades as
anti-personal weapons.

I can relate to your hot casing story, I had the same thing happen on a
range once.  The instructor wasn't to amused when I started squirming
like a mad snake.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Mancini [mailto:Peter_Mancini@onesource.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 9:40 AM
> To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
> Subject: This 'A' battery is as good as any other 'A' battery. (LONG)
> 
> 
> As far as technology differences and quality, I think the 
> "this A battery
> is as good as any other A battery" argument is a little weak. 
> I think the
> issue at hand is the current system can't show the small 
> differences and
> assumes that the user of the system compensates. I have no 
> problem with
> that. It probably saves a lot of die rolling and chart look 
> up. We aren't
> interested in the smaller details - we just want to resolve 
> the battle.
> 
> Here are a few cases based on a Real Life (tm) experience I 
> have had.  On
> Independence Day 2 years ago I found myself at a State Police
> (Massachusetts) Barracks Firing Range. There I got to play with a wide
> assortment of toys (read: guns). My first try was with a 
> raced up .22 cal
> target gun. It had very little bang, no kick and I could put 
> the round in
> the X-Ring every time. Boring. I didn't even need to change the paper
> target because the .22 has no real stopping power and did not 
> really harm
> the paper much.
> 
> Then I got to use a Russian mass-produced, stamped metal .22 
> cal.	That
> thing was dangerous. It was a joke weapon for one of the 
> officers (this guy
> had a personal collection of 20-30 guns).  It jammed on the 
> third shot. I
> was most unimpressed.
> 
> Then I got to try a Barretta 9mm with one magazine of 
> American made ammo
> and 3 magazines of Chinese made ammo.  The American ammo 
> (expensive) gave
> quite a kick but was manageable and was fairly accurate. I 
> was getting 50%
> in the kill ring and 25% on the body with the other 25% 
> either hitting the
> target stand, the dirt mound or other targets!  The Chinese ammo was
> another story indeed. Though it was inexpensive it was not 
> high quality.
> The powder must have been burning inconsistently. The kick 
> increased over
> the course of the clips and I assume it was because of the 
> barrel getting
> dirty. My accuracy fell right off. Finally, something you 
> don't consider
> until you've done it, I noticed that with the American ammo 
> the casings
> were forming a nice pile to my left. The Chinese stuff was 
> ejecting all
> over the place! It was really weird. Again, I assume it was because of
> inconsistent powder burn. Being the beginning of July it was 
> fairly hot out
> and I had an open shirt. For the last magazine I decided to 
> have fun and
> punched out all 16 rounds in double time. I felt like I was 
> in a John Woo
> movie, that is until two of the hot shells ejected straight 
> up and then
> down INTO MY SHIRT!!! Well, trust me, they don't cool down 
> nearly as fast
> as you'd hope.  There I was dancing around like I had lost my 
> mind, gun
> waving about, and the entire line at the firing range dropped to the
> ground. It was over in 3 seconds. I eventually put down the gun and
> untucked my shirt so that the rounds would drop out.	I 
> looked to my left,
> saw glowering troopers and said "sorry!" I then looked to my 
> right and saw
> glowering sergeants and did the same!
> 
> Luckily they all understood once I explained the fact that this didn't
> happen with the American rounds. I guess that is one good use for
> Nationalism. ahem. Anyway I got to finish the day with a .45 
> caliber Sig
> Sauer. It was a massive and mighty weapon. It doesn't quite 
> fit in your
> hand. It feels heavier than it looks and it looks HEAVY. 
> Everything about
> this gun said "professional."  It is a very fine piece of 
> machinery. I used
> American made .45 cal. ammo (the Sergeant insisted...) which 
> costs about
> $0.60 a round for your basic ball ammo and significantly more for the
> Hydroshok and Black Talon rounds. These other rounds are 
> special in that
> the first one is a hollow point filled with liquid Teflon and 
> a penetrator
> dart. If one doesn't get you the other will. Apparently it is 
> really good
> at going through body armor.	The second round breaks open 
> into fangs which
> do a nasty job on flesh. I was informed that it's stopping 
> power went down
> drastically in winter because winter coats could drastically 
> slow it down.
> I asked why they needed such violent ammunition and the 
> straight response I
> got was "we're not sending Christmas Cards."	That made 
> sense, I figure if
> I was ever going to pull a weapon on someone it would have to 
> be because I
> was convinced they needed to be stopped and I too would want 
> to maximize my
> chances.
> 
> OK, now onto the .45. It fired like a dream. Though it had 
> substantially
> more kick back the gun was always ready to fire when I had it 
> back down on
> target. It was incredibly smooth. The larger gun had a lot 
> more built into
> it such as better recoil absorption (it was easier to handle 
> than the 9mm)
> and much better feel. I don't think I would want to rapid 
> fire it, but I
> don't think I needed to. I was able to X-Ring the target 
> 70-90% of the time
> and the rounds were clearly tearing up a lot of paper, so 
> much so that I
> didn't really need to get the target to count the rounds.
> 
> So, in the realm of small arms at least, a lot can vary 
> between the quality
> of the weapon, the quality of the ammo, and together those 
> are even more
> potent. I would say that the high quality .22 cal was much 
> more deadly than
> the 9mm with the cheapass ammo. The high quality .45 with 
> high quality ammo
> was like Zeus.  MA State Police use a 9mm gun in service by the way.
> 
> Again, in FT/MT we don't care about these differences in the current
> system. I wonder if crew quality or weapon quality will vary 
> at all in FT3?
> 
> --Pete
> 
>