Re: Historical DD's and torpedos - was Re: [OFFICIAL] Missile Ideas

>	What do you mean by overtaken ???  Bear in mind than the German
>pocket battleships were built to stay within a very constricting treaty
>and were some 10 years before the Salem class.... 
>It is not really a fair comparison to compare a 21000 ton ship launched
in
>1945, with a 12000 ton ship launched 

That's what I meant by overtaken... (and I should have said "slow for a
cruiser").  They were also a LONG way outside the Treaty limits, more
like
14000 tons than the grudgingly-admitted 12000.	

>For there time they were revolutionary, and the 26kts-28kts a pocket
>battleship could manage is not slow by anymeans.  It was on this
princible
>that they were designed...  To fast for anything that could shoot them,
>and heavily enough armed and armoured to cope with lighter, faster
>aggressors.  
>
>The key to this was 11" guns and reasonable armour.  Something that
even
>the more modern US cruisers you mention would have been pushed to cope
>with. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Salem class was still on 8"
guns,
>which would damage Graff Spee, yes.... but would they do it faster than
>her 11" could dish the damage out to you.  You only have 5-7 kts
closure
>and Graff Spee gets to start firing first....	Maybe I should run a
>hypothetical 'what if' and see :)
>
>-Michael   

Go to it!  That's more than half the fun!  (My prediction would be
Alaska
crushes the Graf Spee like a bug, and is never hit herself, while Salem
beats GS and suffers moderate to heavy damage...)  Interestingly, in the
1930s the naval wargames pioneer was criticised when, in a hypothetical
battle, 3 RN cruisers beat a pocket battleship!

BTW, this isn't really off topic for FT if you think of the tactical
considerations.  The Graf Spee can't win a stern chase (3x11" against
6x8"
with very rapid fire) so she might as well try to get her fore turret
into
action.  Salem then has to decide whether to charge in to close the
range as
fast as possible, or more slowly to get HER aft turret into action.  It
is
generally agreed, by the way, that the Graf Spee was not especially well
handled in the River Plate action.

Cheers, 
Rob Paul
"Rob Paul
NERC Institute of Virology 
Mansfield Road, Oxford OX1 3SR	  Tel. (01865) 512361
rpaul@worf.molbiol.ox.ac.uk
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