Re: Stargrunt II

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Charles Thumann wrote:

 
> > 
> > Can you combine two squads into one?  I plan on fielding 9 man
squads of
> > light infantry (two PPG per squad) and wanted to include on the
battle
> > field separate 3 man heavy teams (one man carrying a SAW) acting as
> > independent squads.  One of the things I would like to do is be able
to
> > combine a Heavy team/squad and one of my light squads during a
battle (so 
> > there would actually be two squad leaders in this "reinforced"
squad).  Is
> > that legal, or would I have to do that before the game started?
> 
> The one thing I don't understand is why people would field a bigger
squad 
> than five members if they were using any weapon of firepower 3, or a 
> seven man squad if using a weapon of firepower 2.  With four riflemen 
> armed with firepower 3 rifles backed up with an SAW man, you've just 
> achieved your maximum efficiency--a d12 for the riflemen and then the
SAW 
> as the second action (or Pig, or IAVR or whatever).  What good would 
> seven riflemen do?  Aside from helping out as soon as you take 
> casualties?  I know, I know, call me a "power gamer" but this is a
little 
> too much of a rules loophole, unless I'm totally missing something.
>

Yep, you are. :) :)    Why would you field the maximum effect squad
configuration in a game that has no point system?  How can you "power
game" in a system that has no points?  Instead of splitting your squads
into groups of five why not just take the same number of squads but with
more people.  Actually the reason most people (I'm guessing) probably
field more than five people in a squad is that it resembles what we see
in
the modern battlefields of today.  Since the whole point of a non-point
system is to take what should be there rather than what works best game
wise...... ah hell, I give up - I don't know
why..ramble..ramble..ramble..  

> Let's take a standard U.S. style rifle squad (I'm not in the military
so 
> please correct me if I've got this wrong--this is just picked up from 
> other games):
> 
> Squad leader w/M16
> Fire Team Leader w/M16
> Rifleman w/M16
> 1 SAW Gunner
> 1 Grenadier
> Fire Team Leader w/M16
> Dragon Gunner w/M16
> 1 SAW Gunner
> 1 Grenadier
> 

Close, by TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment) an Infantry Squad
(Light) is composed as above, however you need to add one rifleman (M16)
to each Fire Team (FM 7-8, Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad) for a full
TOE squad of nine.  In practice each fire team operates separately
(sorta, kinda, not really), but in mutual support, 
and is controlled by the Squad Leader (who will also have control of any
Weapons Team that is attached to the squad, such as an M60 LMG or 90mm
Recoiless Rifle - they kind of form a third Fire Team).  In Stargrunt II
each Fire Team (IMHO) should be fielded
as a separate squad with the Team Leader being that squads Squad Leader.
The Squad Leader would be an independent Leader that is the next higher
in the chain of command of that squad.	Or something like that.

> Now, assume the M16s are firepower 2 and the grenade launchers
are 
> firepower 3.	That means altogether the squad has 18 firepower points,
6 
> of which are wasted because you can't have better than a d12, and you 
> have 2 SAW gunners, which is just fine.
> 

Reality/Game check here please :)  Trust me on this, you would rather
get shot at by a squad with fewer men and weapons in it than by one with
more men and weapons - regardless of what Stargrunt says (game glitch I
would say).  The reason we operate in the military (talking Light
Infantry here) as two fire teams is NOT that the extra weapons don't
help,
it is that with two teams we have maneuver and support elements - and
that
lets us rock AND roll.	

I would suggest that if you wish to
approximate reality a little more that when you have the above problem
(18
fp) that you subtract the max dice (12) from it and use the remainder as
the beginning of a new fp total (6 in this case, for an extra d6).
However, the game seems to work just fine as it is and I'm really just
rambling at this point.

> Of course if you divide the squads into fireteams, attaching the squad

> leader to one of the fireteams than your fine and dandy and efficient,

> with one fireteam firepower 9 and one firepower 7, resulting in each 
> rolling a d8, right?	And each is supported by a nice SAW.  But what 
> happens in terms of leadership?  What if I start the game with
fireteams 
> like this, and assuming the squad leader is a sergeant, what is the 
> fireteam leader, a corporal?	If my Liutenant (platoon leader) tries
to 
> give his action to one of the fireteams to re-activate it, is that two

> levels of command, platoon leader to sergeant to corporal, instead of 
> just one?  I would think so.	Does this rambling make any sense to
anyone?
> 
> 

Does to me.

By TOE the Squad Leader is a Staff Sergeant (E6) and the two Team Leader
are Sergeants (E5).  All three are considered Leadership positions (Team
Leader less so, but I have always put GREAT faith in my Team Leaders). 
In
actuality the Squad Leader is a "manager" and will control how the Squad
fights, the Team Leaders are Fighting Leaders in the truest sense of the
word and lead by example- in fact the standing order of all Team Leaders
is "Do as I do" (FM 7-8).


I would say that you are right and that it should work as two levels of
command:  Platoon Leader ->  Squad Leader ->  Team Leader.  

							Chad Taylor