Re: hyperspace (was: cloaking device rules)

Mike Miserendino writes:
@:) joachim wrote:
@:) >  While jump drives or jump points make for great special effects,
@:) 
@:) Well I was refering to theories, not special effects.

  I'm not sure which one there are more of!

@:) When you mention "speeding up" as per SW, it seems you're
@:) referring to the special effect in the film.  The book describes
@:) this differently.  You could think of the appearance of the ship
@:) speeding up as it's shadow as it passes into hyperspace (time
@:) dilation effect).  In this case, you don't actually have a target,
@:) just a ghost.

  That's interesting, although I guess it makes sense.	Well, so much
for Star Wars compatibility, I guess.  I still like speeding up.

@:) Speeding up fast enough in normal space to outrun directed energy
@:) weapons is a bit far-fetched.

  Since you can't outrun light in normal space, whether you can avoid
a directed energy weapon really depends on your estimation of future
targeting systems and beam attenuation over distance.  That's all
pretty speculative since we don't have any real world examples (well
none that don't suck anyway).

@:) >I bet you could get outside [a laser's] effective range (or
@:) >targeting range) pretty well.
@:) 
@:) This is mainly due to current targeting and focusing systems, not
@:) weapon range.

  I don't know what kind of theoretical limits have been proposed for
large-scale laser focusing systems, but I guess since we're talking
about engines with acceleration that's just plain goofy, we can assume
super high-quality targeting systems and super long-range lasers.  I
prefer to imagine the beam weapons of the future being some non-laser
weapon that somehow manages to do all the amazing things that phasers
and blasters and pulse cannons and what-have-you do.

@:) The majority of weapon systems in FT are directed energy weapons.
@:) Now if you are accelerating really fast, but not FTL, you will NOT
@:) outrun the weapon's output.  You might get lucky and pick a
@:) direction that the enemy's targeting system did not predict

  Or get so far away so fast that you're too small to hit.  Like
better than 36 m.u./turn/turn.

@:) chances are, if technology exists for you to accelerate at such
@:) ludicrous speeds in normal space (and totally oblivious to say
@:) coping with high-g accels on your crew, or getting whacked by a
@:) frozen oscar meyer weiner in your path of acceleration

  Who told you about that wiener?!  That was supposed to be
confidential!!

@:) an offensive targeting system will be available to predict your
@:) path the second you light up and place a few gigawatts of
@:) destructive energy in a merging path with you.

  Well, I can see it but I don't think I can quite suspend my
disbelief in that direction.  Sure, that could happen but it just
doesn't agree with me.

@:) Another point to make is that if your ship is accelerating to a
@:) high speed, even though it might be very fast, it is still
@:) accelerating.  You don't have the full velocity achieved until
@:) after you have actually accelerated.  So at the start of your
@:) move, you would only be moving at a fraction of your total final
@:) velocity, not the full amount!  If you are using some ridiculus
@:) inertialess drive or something forget the above.

  Well we're not really and this is not only a good point but an
important one.	Let's say you're commanding a typical dreadnought.
Mass 80-100, 10-15 A batteries, 8 PDAF and ... thrust 2.  Ahem.  Well,
so here you are and you're getting the piss knocked out of you by the
local torpedo cruisers and it's time to go.  You are manouvering at
the blisteringly fast speed of 8.  You seat yourself in your really
cushy captain's chair, set clone production to FULL and engage your
incredibly gizmonic high-speed drive.  Come next turn you are now
whizzing along at the barely legal speed of ... 16.  Ooh, better wear
a helmet if you're going that fast.  The cruisers behind you are doing
12 which means you've gained four inches on them so their torpedoes
can probably still hit you.  Worse, now your shields are down and you
probably still have three or four turns left before you get into the
bedroom (or kitchen, depending on which way you're fleeing) and
actually get off the board.  Youch!  You're toast dude.  So while
people are in fact allowed to leave the game by using this drive
system, it ain't easy.	Heavy ships in particular end up with a
maximum first turn acceleration (10) that is only slightly better than
an escort's likely normal acceleration (8).  So I still predict a fair
amount of bloodshed.

@:) >  Yeah, well this is a good point but that's why ships carry so
@:) >many people - so that when half of them get crushed there are
@:) >still enough left to run the thing.  The cap'n has a _really_
@:) >cushy chair, of course.
@:) 
@:) I think you might need to use ships full of clones the way you go
through
@:) crew members. ;)

  Maybe this explains that mysterious term "clone war"?  No, actually,
in another tribute to 20th century American society, our crew members
all wear official Rollerblade brand helmets and knee and ankle
protectors.  Once equipped with these miracles of modern protective
science, being hurled across a room under a few 1000 gs of
acceleration hardly even fazes them.

@:) >This is a good point, and it might be interesting to include a
@:) >possible failure of some kind of anti-inertial field.
@:) 
@:) Well, since you don't really do much with crews outside of damage
@:) control parties, this would probably be useless.  However, the
@:) effects on equipment might be more relevant to the game mechanics
@:) as the FTL effects imply.

  Destroying equipment could be good (eg take damage as for a row for
every turn you are FTLing without a functional FTL drive).  I included
an important admiral as a system in a recent scenario since one of the
goals was to kill him  This could be done more generally by having a
captain system - if it's destroyed the ship is out of control for a
turn or something.

@:) > [ FTL rules make things blow up a lot ]
@:) 
@:) I usually don't use them in demo games for just that reason, but
@:) with more experienced players it demands the use of better
@:) tactics.

  I am not one of those who find the FT movement system
totally... pleasant but I think I could live with that aspect of it.
We had a hard time coming up with a better way of preventing kamikaze
attacks than just saying "you can't do that".  In general I don't
think any of us in my group are into the "big effect" style FTL, where
ships can damage other ships far away with their FTL systems.

  Again, for all those who haven't read this stuff, you might want to
check out the Pride of Chanur et al for some cool FTL ideas.  In
particular, one (and only one) species in that series has the ability
to tow ships through FTL.  Unfortunately, since no one can figure out
how to communicate with them, understandings lead to unfortunate
abductions.  To their credit, the K'nnn understand the concept of
trade well enough that they never fail to leave, well, _something_
behind in return for the equipment and possibly people they took away.

-joachim