RE: Game 796

[Oerjan Ariander <oerjan.ariander@xxxxxxxxx>]

Noam wrote:

> > >against Stealth-1 targets your weapons fire as if the range is 20%
>
> >>Yes. This mathematically identical to saying that Beam range bands go
> >>from 12 MU to 10 vs. stealth 1, and to 8 vs. stealth 2.
>
> >And presenting the effective range instead of letting the players work it
> >out in their heads is MUCH, MUCH easier to handle for those players who -
> >unlike you and me - have *not* played Stealthed ships for several years
> >already.
>
>Someone who is unused to stealth could also, very easily look at the map, 
>which shows his ship 16 MU from a stealth ship, and the range, which shows 
>the effective range of 24 and go "huh?"

That "huh?" reaction is almost exactly what you'd get from a sensor tech 
who had never seen a stealthed ship before <shrug>

> >The vast majority of FTJava players are only used to the *standard* set of
> >range bands. For them it is much easier to see "effective range is 25.5 
> - ...
>
>I'll agree that if the computer does the effective range band calculation 
>for you, this is the easier approach.

Good. BTW, you may have noticed that this discussion only concerns how to 
implement Stealth *in FTJava* (where by default you do have a computer 
available to do the range calcs for you) and not in FTF gaming (where you 
usually don't)...

> >>I disagree. At range 11 you're in B2 range against both a standard
> >>hull and stealth 2. But you're in RB1 vs. standard, and RB2 vs
> >>stealth. You still have to know your range bands.
>
> >And if you've played Full Thrust for more than two or three games, you KNOW
> >that the beam range bands are 12mu. When you've played FT that much (or
> >little), it is already trivial for you to see that range 11 is inside the
> >first beam range band and that range 16.5 (the effective range against
> >Stealth-2) is in the second beam range band.
>
>I could also say that if you've played with LR-Torps more than 2 or 3 
>times, you're used to 9 MU bands, Grasers, 18 MU bands, Placed marker 
>weapons 24 or 36 MU ranges.

Each of those weapons only has ONE set of range bands for the player to 
remember - until you introduce Stealth, in which case the player suddenly 
needs to keep track of THREE sets of range bands for *each* of those weapon 
types.

Unless, of course, the player has a computer which can re-calculate the 
*ranges* for him  - then he's back to only having to track the standard ONE 
set of range bands per weapon type.

Remembering ONE set of range bands per weapon type is considerably easier 
than remembering THREE sets per weapon type :-/

> >>This can indeed be solved by either modifying the
> >>range to be a longer "effective range", or by using an "effective
> >>range band" display like I outlined.
>
> >Using an "effective range band display" does NOT tell you that firing at
> >that particular ship *will be* affected. All it tells you is what the
> >effect would be *if* that particular ship happens to be stealthed.
>
>The way I was thinking about that display was that it _would_ reflect the 
>range bands for that specific target (*accounting for steath*)  from the 
>fireng ship.
>
>So if a ship has a choice of Target 1 (standard) and Target 2 (stealth 2) 
>both at range 16, the range band display would show
>
>F CA Target1 17 [2/5-3-2/1]
>F CA Target2 17 [3/X-5-3/2]

Which at least to me is at least as confusing as trying to plot the reduced 
range bands in  the map window :-/

>I would, in the end, have little objection to a display that said
>
>F CA Target1 17/17
>F CA Target2 17/26

Much better, yes.

Regards,

Oerjan
oerjan.ariander@xxxxxxxxx

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
-Hen3ry